Friday, April 16, 2010

David Waltz on Scripture and Tradition, and Richard Bauckham


David Waltz on Scripture and Tradition:

"Once again, Scripture is CLEAR, but only for those who have embraced the true regula fidei. This was THE view of the majority of the early Church Fathers, and has been recognized as such by a consensus of patristic scholars; the following are but a few selections from this overwhelming consensus."

Here's a citation he used for support:

The ‘ancillary view’ is Lane’s term for the sixteenth-century Protestant view, in which tradition functions as an aid, but not a norm, for the interpretation of Scripture… In spite of claims to the contrary, the Reformers did not return to the ‘coincidence view’…The Reformation posited a degree of discontinuity in church history… (Richard Bauckham, “Tradition In Relation To Scripture and Reason”, in Scripture, Tradition, and Reason, ed. Drewery & Bauckham, p. 122.)

So, this quote from Bauckham is used as scholarly evidence that the Reformers posited a "discontinuity in church history" because they rejected the established God-given relationship between Scripture and Tradition. Since the Reformers rejected this, they therefore rejected the true regula fidei. The true regula fidei embraces the authority of the Roman Catholic Church.

Compare this citation to how it reads in context:

Richard Bauckham:

The ‘ancillary view’ is Lane’s term for the sixteenth-century Protestant view, in which tradition functions as an aid, but not a norm, for the interpretation of Scripture. The Reformation principle of sola scriptura was not primarily directed against tradition, but against the teaching of the contemporary church. But it was therefore a rejection of those understandings of the role of tradition which served to justify the teaching of the contemporary church as apostolic and to permit no appeal to Scripture against it. In other words, it was a rejection of both the ‘coincidence’ and the ‘supplementary’ views. In spite of claims to the contrary, the Reformers did not return to the ‘coincidence view’, and could not do so, because that view depends on the harmony and continuity of the contemporary church’s teaching with both Scripture and tradition. Once the contemporary church’s teaching is judged to be unscriptural and therefore dependent on corrupt tradition, it is no longer possible to identify true tradition in the way that the ‘coincidence view’ requires, by means of the Vincentian canon. True tradition can now be distinguished from corrupt tradition only by testing all tradition according to the standard of its faithfulness to Scripture. Scripture inevitably becomes the norm for the identification of true tradition, rather than tradition the norm for the interpretation of Scripture. The Reformation posited a degree of discontinuity in church history—the possibility and the fact of serious and long continued doctrinal error by the authorities of the church—which necessarily deprived tradition of the normative status it had in both the ‘coincidence’ and the ‘supplementary’ views. If Scripture can be pitted against tradition to reveal its corruption, then Scripture must be not only materially (as in the ‘coincidence’ view) but also formally sufficient.

The great respect which the Reformers had for the Fathers, and especially for the creeds and the councils of the early church, does not contradict this belief in the formal sufficiency of Scripture. Certainly they could appeal to the true tradition of the early church against the corrupt tradition of the medieval period, but in a way which ultimately presupposes the independent authority of Scripture. Only by judging tradition according to the standard of Scripture could they evaluate the first five or six centuries as relatively pure and the succeeding centuries as progressively corrupt. No other principle (such as the notion of an undivided church) made the tradition of the patristic period especially authoritative, since, as article 21 of the Church of England’s 39 states, even general councils ‘may err, and sometimes have erred.’


See Richard Bauckham’s chapter, Tradition In Relation To Scripture and Reason,” in Benjamin Drewery and Richard J. Bauckham, eds., Scripture, Tradition, and Reason, A Study in the Criteria of Christian Doctrine, Essays in Honour of Richard P. C. Hanson (Edinburgh: T & T Clark, 1988), pp. 122-123.

Bauckham isn't making the point David said he did. In the citation from Waltz, the Reformers are caricatured as departing from the universal established truth concerning Scripture and Tradition. Perhaps Waltz saw this because of his previous Romanist worldview.

In context though, Bauckham says:

"The Reformation principle of sola scriptura was not primarily directed against tradition, but against the teaching of the contemporary church. But it was therefore a rejection of those understandings of the role of tradition which served to justify the teaching of the contemporary church as apostolic and to permit no appeal to Scripture against it."

The Reformers rejected "both the ‘coincidence’ and the ‘supplementary’ views" of Tradition.

He then states "The Reformation posited a degree of discontinuity in church history" because:

"the possibility and the fact of serious and long continued doctrinal error by the authorities of the church—which necessarily deprived tradition of the normative status it had in both the ‘coincidence’ and the ‘supplementary’ views. If Scripture can be pitted against tradition to reveal its corruption, then Scripture must be not only materially (as in the ‘coincidence’ view) but also formally sufficient."

And then finally:

"The great respect which the Reformers had for the Fathers, and especially for the creeds and the councils of the early church, does not contradict this belief in the formal sufficiency of Scripture. Certainly they could appeal to the true tradition of the early church against the corrupt tradition of the medieval period, but in a way which ultimately presupposes the independent authority of Scripture. Only by judging tradition according to the standard of Scripture could they evaluate the first five or six centuries as relatively pure and the succeeding centuries as progressively corrupt."

Since the citation Waltz used is from an older post, the question becomes, what is now the true regula fidei for Mr. Waltz? Now that he's abandoned Romanism, perhaps a re-reading of some of his older blog entries is in order.

"True tradition can now be distinguished from corrupt tradition only by testing all tradition according to the standard of its faithfulness to Scripture."

Thursday, April 15, 2010

Catholic Nick's Silver Bullet doesn't come with a user manual

Rhology said...
Hi Nick, I'd like to know sthg specific. Given your claim that to your knowledge no one has ever come up with this argument before, why would this not raise a red flag for a RC like you? Why wouldn't the arguments produced by the infallible Magisterium be sufficient for you? If you argue that this is simply an internal critique of Protestantism, I respond in two ways: 1) Why wouldn't the internal critiques produced by the infallible Magisterium be sufficient for you? 2) The Bible matters for RCC too, so it's not only an internal critique if you intend to tell us what the Bible says. Why are you, an anonymous layman blogger, doing the serious job of biblical exegesis? Peace, Rhology




Nick said...
Rhology, Coming up with a new argument against a heresy is perfectly fine. Heresies pop up all the time, even old ones under new forms, thus we'd expect new arguments against them. The only time 'novelty' is to be looked upon with suspicion is when it comes to redefining or introducing new doctrine.




Rhology said...
Coming up with a new argument against a heresy is perfectly fine. I'm not all that interested in your say-so. I'd like some evidence, please. I'd also like you to answer my questions. Thanks!




Nick said...
Rhology, Your comments are not relevant to the topic of this post, I'm not on any sort of trial and don't need to answer your question which are ultimately aimed at taking this discussion off topic (so as to avoid the main arguments) and turning this discussion into a an all too common game of you keep asking endless questions while I invest my time answering (and you having no intention of returning the favor). Question and answer is a two way street. I consider myself pretty well read in terms of Catholic theology and practice, and I can say with a clear conscience I'm not going against any Church teaching in what I've said. If I am, and you know about it, it's your duty to point it out. Otherwise, I have no reason to do your homework for you.




Rhology said...
I consider myself pretty well read in terms of Catholic theology and practice Wow, and I'm really happy for you. Unfortunately, that doesn't tell me anything about my questions. If you think I'm only interested in asking questions, you haven't read any of my blog writings. Sad to see you won't answer simple questions. In my experience, it's usually b/c you can't. See you. Peace, Rhology




Nick said...
Rhology, One of the Decrees of the Second Vatican Council is APOSTOLICAM ACTUOSITATEM*, a decree focused on the life and place of the layman in the Church, here is some of what it said: "Since, in our own times, new problems are arising and very serious errors are circulating which tend to undermine the foundations of religion, the moral order, and human society itself, this sacred synod earnestly exhorts laymen-each according to his own gifts of intelligence and learning-to be more diligent in doing what they can to explain, defend, and properly apply Christian principles to the problems of our era in accordance with the mind of the Church." * http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19651118_apostolicam-actuositatem_en.html




Rhology said...
I don't see how that answers the question.




Nick said...
There is no satisfying you, and I'm not spending anymore time with *your* agenda, especially when this combox is for an entirely different subject. Rather than have this combox flooded with anymore of that type of posts, I'll likely be deleting them if they show up. Lastly, I'm not afraid of you and my apologetics abilities are far superior to yours. Based on our interactions of the past, and examining what your work elsewhere, you'd be crushed in a written debate against me. My work on the blog and my webpage are open for all to see, if there's anything you think you can expose, go ahead and try. I invite any challenge to any of my work.




Rhology said...
Based on our interactions of the past, and examining what your work elsewhere, you'd be crushed in a written debate against me. Tee hee, you must not've read any canon law on the topic of humility this week. Thanks for not answering. Have a good one.

Wednesday, April 14, 2010

The Catholic Champion Says: Avoid Second Vatican Council Experts


The Catholic Champion says:

"Watch out for these guys (or gals) when reading or buying Catholic books these days. Although some of what some of these theologians or authors had to say may have been OK, they have or have had a predisposition to modernism or even outright heresy, and their overall influence in my opinion, as well as many others, has been a negative one on the Church." [source]

Here's a person on the Catholic Champion list: Yves Congar

Yves M.-J. Congar, OP, (1904-95), who taught fundamental theology and ecclesiology at Le Saulchoir, a Dominican house of studies, and served as an expert for the Second Vatican Council, incorporated both historical and systematic methods in his assessment of Luther. Congar had realized a personal ecumenical vocation long before the publication of his Divided Christendom in 1937, which established fundamental principles of Catholic ecumenical thought, many of which were incorporated into the Second Vatican Council, (Congar 1988,77-82). [Gregory Sobolewski, Martin Luther: Roman Catholic Prophet (Milwaukee: Marquette University Press, 2001) p. 52]

Tuesday, April 13, 2010

Roman Catholic Study Bibles?

Are you looking for a Roman Catholic study Bible? Why not try out The New Catholic Answer Bible? Not only does this volume include color inserts on various topics, it also uses the popular text of the New American Bible (NAB), beloved by millions of Roman Catholics. The New American Bible was put together by a group of Roman Catholic scholars. These scholars also took the time to provide thousands of helpful footnotes on the text of the Bible. These are included for free in the The New Catholic Answer Bible!

Here's a recent comment by someone who appreciates The New Catholic Answer Bible on the value of the NAB footnotes:

The NAB footnotes are notoriously liberal. I wouldn't place all that much confidence in them in the first place, myself.

Another Roman Catholic asks:

If the footnotes in the officially sanctioned New American Bible really are overly liberal compared to the actual teaching of the Catholic Church, isn't that a serious problem for millions Catholics who use it as their source of Scripture?

To which the person who appreciates The New Catholic Answer Bible responded: "Yes."

If you've got a Roman Catholic friend or family member, and you'd like to keep them confused by the Biblical text, purchase the New Catholic Answer Bible (along with its helpful NAB footnotes) from Amazon.com.

The NAB Perpetuating "a serious problem for millions of Catholics"

Are you looking for a Roman Catholic study Bible? Why not try out The New Catholic Answer Bible? Not only does this volume include color inserts on various topics, it also uses the popular text of the New American Bible (NAB), beloved by millions of Roman Catholics. The New American Bible was put together by a group of Roman Catholic scholars. These scholars also took the time to provide thousands of helpful footnotes on the text of the Bible. These are included for free in the The New Catholic Answer Bible!

Here's a recent testimony by the one of the masterminds behind The New Catholic Answer Bible on the value of the NAB footnotes:

The NAB footnotes are notoriously liberal. I wouldn't place all that much confidence in them in the first place, myself.

But.... asks Hannah:

If the footnotes in the officially sanctioned New American Bible really are overly liberal compared to the actual teaching of the Catholic Church, isn't that a serious problem for millions Catholics who use it as their source of Scripture?

To which one of the masterminds behind The New Catholic Answer Bible responds: "Yes."

If you've got a Roman Catholic friend or family member, and you'd like to keep them confused by the Biblical text, purchase the New Catholic Answer Bible (along with its helpful NAB footnotes) from Amazon.com.

Monday, April 12, 2010

Review- Luther: The Rest of the Story by Ken Hensley (Part Two)

This is part two of my review of Luther: The Rest of the Story By Ken Hensley (2003). In three audio lectures, Mr. Hensley explains Luther from his particular Roman Catholic perspective. In this installment, I'll be looking at points from Ken's first lecture of his three part series. Part one of my review can be found here.

In this installment, I'm simply going to lay out Mr. Hensley's position on the biography of Luther. What caused Luther to rebel against the Roman Catholic Church? What caused Luther to see God the way he did? Mr. Hensley answers these questions in his first lecture. Throughout this critique, I've included brief mp3 audio snippets from Ken's lecture designated as "(mp3 clip)". Each clip runs around one to four minutes.

Telling the Rest of the Story?
Ken Hensley begins his treatment exactly where Heiko Oberman's Luther: Man Between God and the Devil did, Luther's death. He relates how upon hearing the news of Luther's death, it was viewed by Luther's supporters as if "The charioteer of Israel has fallen" (2 Kings 2:12). This is the first glimpse of Hensley's position. He's going to debunk the myth of Luther as the great hero by telling "the rest of the story." The "rest" is the part that Protestants never hear, and that Lutheran school children are never told. He's going to dissect the Luther story that has grown to legendary proportions (mp3 clip) (mp3 clip).

Hensley though doesn't initially seek the invective level of a Cochlaeus, Denifle, or Sippo. He notes that Luther had valuable things to say, and was correct in pointing out the abuses plaguing the Roman church. Hensley admits the church needed reform (mp3 clip).While I can appreciate these concessions, by the end of the second lecture Luther is painted as such a theological villain with an antinomian theology that whatever positive things were stated earlier become meaningless.

Throughout his first lecture Hensley quotes Oberman and also Roland Bainton's Here I Stand extensively. This is Hensley's attempt to tell Luther's story from a respected Protestant perspective. To point out "the rest of the story" in this first lecture amounts to a critique of the historical conclusions of these Protestant authors. Hensley reads their conclusions and points out either a different interpretation of the facts, a nuanced interpretation of their conclusions, or flat out rejects what these authors say as Protestant bias. In some instances he'll concede their points, but downplays their conclusions with facts that are alleged to trump Protestant historical interpretation.

Where Bainton and Oberman argue Luther reacted to a corrupt church with a faulty theology saddled with anti-Biblical baggage, Hensley will argue the emphasis of Luther should be placed on him as a man struggling with psychological factors of depression and a difficult relationship with parents he could never please. The doctrines Luther created were based on curing aspects of his psyche. Luther's goal was not really church reform or an accurate critique of Roman Catholic theology by comparing it to the authority of the Bible. Luther's depressions and familial relationships caused him to create a God which was neither the God of the Bible or that taught by the Roman church (Mp3 clip). To relate to this false conception of God, Luther invented sola fide. By the end of lecture one, the "Luther" explained by Hensley is to be pitied. Hensley views the image he's created as sympathetic. Who would not pity a sensitive child continually beaten by adults?

Hensley's approach is known as pyschohistory. This approach holds history can be understood by applying the science of psychoanalysis to a historical figure. History is more than simply “facts”- it is also the result of psychological forces that drive people to do what they do. The Reformation therefore was not God's Spirit working in the Church, it was the result of a man with deep psychological problems who was in the right place at the right time to cause a controversy which divided the church.

Luther's Abusive Parents: Hensley's Psycho-historical Argument
Hensley says that Luther's family situation is that which caused his heresy and revolt. His parents were stern and abusive, and this impacted the fragile sensitive psyche of young Martin. He provides evidence that Luther was beaten by both parents, as well as as by those in charge at school. This harsh treatment, particularly by his father, caused Luther to view God as a severe judge who could not be pleased. Luther had a fear of his father, and a fear of being unable to please his father. Hensley claims it was the severe treatment inflicted on Luther by his parents that sent him into the monastery (mp3 clip). Hensley forcefully brings this point of Luther's relationship with his parents out by describing Luther's first mass. The fear Luther felt during the mass was fear that was instilled by his own father. After the mass, Luther's father embarrassed his son in front of everyone (mp3 clip).

Hensley relates this relationship Luther had with his parents to the way Luther understood God. It wasn't God who was angry with Luther, it was Hans Luther displeased with son for becoming a monk. It wasn't God who was angry with Luther, it was Luther who was angry at God, or rather, the impact of Hans Luther that caused Luther's anger toward God (mp3 clip).

Luther the Monk
At the first mass, Luther claims to have been "without faith" during this period in his life. Luther also mentions that as a devout monk he hated God. These statements question the validity of Luther's call to the monastic life. While not explicitly stated by Hensley, Luther in essence, needed to learn to cope with his father, he didn't need the monastery. Luther wasn't called by God to be a monk. He was a man with a faulty image of God that wrongly chose the monastic life. Luther's struggle was based on the father he loved, feared, but could please (mp3 clip). This transferred to Luther's understanding of God: Luther feared that he could not please God. While Hensley says Luther loved Hans Luther, he hated God and viewed him as angry deity.

As a monk, Hensley points out the rigorous discipline Luther subjected himself to please God, but never felt he could do enough. While Protestants see this is as the natural result on one applying the Romanist system consistently, Hensley asks how it was possible then that others who lived during the sixteenth century were able to achieve sainthood (mp3 clip).

Along with these issues, Hensley's says that Luther's experience of going to Rome caused him to doubt the power and authority of the Roman Catholic Church (mp3 clip) . Hensley comes right out and says Rome was more or less morally depraved from head to toe and that Luther questioned his faith in Rome should be no surprise. Hensley says if Papal leadership doesn't act morally, this is what one should expect of her faithful followers. I add, Hensley's comments should be applied to Rome's current 2010 scandal.

Hensley on briefly touches the aspect of indulgences in the sixteenth century (mp3 clip). He doesn't spend any time describing the rampant abuse of the indulgence, and Luther's critique of the abuse of indulgences. Rather, he says indulgences are an act of prayer and "sincerely seeking God and seeking God's blessing."

Conclusion
In my next installment of this series, I'll take a look at the historical image of Luther sketched by Ken Hensley. The conclusions Ken reached are not "the rest of the story."

Thursday, April 08, 2010

Conversation with Catholic Nick

Continuing from here, in my experience too, RCs and EOx are apparently scared of Webster and King's books.Which is ironic b/c Nick felt it necessary to comment on a blogpost about that very book. One wonders whether he's even read one of them. Here's the comment I respond to.
If I'm not mistaken, this is the same Nick as "Catholic Nick" from Tfan's debate: Responses to 'Catholic Nick'.



Nick,

I've responded to that which matters in your post. I left out some things, b/c they were really, really worthless.

James White: he plainly says SS was not operational during times of enscripturation.

Yes, I know. I didn't question that.



The rule of faith was coming into being; it didn't *fully* exist yet.

And yet Paul directs Tim to the Scr and not to the Magisterium. Sounds like he knew sthg you're not acknowledging.



neither the Apostles nor Apostolic Christians were practicing SS.

So what?



R: Except the text says what it says. And of course Timothy had the OT!
N: This is the fallacy of anachronism: your 'interpretation' requires you to read back into the text something that was historically impossible.


It's anachronistic to remind you that Timothy had the OT? Esp when Paul mentions in the previous verse the "sacred writings, which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to faith in Christ Jesus"? Riiiiiight. Try again.



Paul could not be instructing Tim to engage in SS when SS wasn't operational.

Equivocation. "Engage in SS" is not the same as "the Scr is able to adequately prepare the man of God for every good work". Do you think we don't acknowledge that the authoritative teachings of apostles was God's speaking thru His shaluach?
And yet Paul was preparing Tim for the future, as the context makes plain.



Having the OT is irrelevant, since no Protestant claims the OT is sufficient.

Now YOU'RE engaging in anachronism! Paul clearly tells Tim about the "sacred writings, which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to faith in Christ Jesus". The OT is sufficient, yet not the exhaustive extent of God's revelation. You need to argue for the OT's insufficiency, not ascribe that view to me and then dismiss it.



Scripture presents more than one source for divine communication to man, and no rational Protestant would deny that: God spoke to men before Scripture existed

No one questions that here! Do you spend your days talking KJV only advocates or something?
We're asking you to prove your assertion - that God deposited His revelation in sthg other than the Scr, AFTER IT WAS SPOKEN. I notice no evidence from you, no argument for that position. Get on it.



through all sorts of created mediums, dreams, fire, cloud, oral preaching of Apostles, etc.

Which you know about b/c of the Scr, y por nada más.



Just reading v14 refutes your argument, since Paul points to all Tim's teachers.

Strawman. As if Sola Scrip dismisses the utility, even the near necessity, of teachers.
You come across as if this is the 1st time you've talked to a knowledgeable Sola Scripturist, yet you've engaged in a long convo with TFan. I conclude that you're not a very good listener, and I encourage you to get better at that skill.



Further, to limit your analysis to 16f and say "that's all Paul points to" assumes Paul wanted to lay down a rule of faith here without regard for what he taught elsewhere.

Just bring fwd the alternative and we can talk. How many times do I have to challenge you to do so before you pony up the dough?



in which the sword is only one piece.

Given 1 Cor 2:14-15, it's hardly surprising that Paul would refer to someone's need to be regenerate before the Scr will be particularly helpful for him.



I never said something inspired can come from anyone other than God, quite the contrary.

Sorry, man. You said: "I don't recall any requirements (esp in Scripture) where something must be explicitly said to be "God Breathed" to be inspired and authoritative." That's what I was responding to.
Retractions are certainly allowed, but you have to be man enough to say "I retract".



R: Yep, the apostles' teaching. See any apostles around today?
N: No, but irrelevant.


So the fact that apostles are all dead is irrelevant to whether there are for-sure apostolic teaching in somewhere other than the Scr is irrelevant to the question?



N: Where did I assert their oral teaching was substantively different? Nowhere.

Don't be so dense. There's no reason to bring up 2 Thess 2:15 and other mentions of "oral trad" in the NT otherwise. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.



N: Starting with the last sentence, that claim is bogus because what what Sungenis would have apart from Scripture is irrelevant.
R: Oh, so let's take away Scr. Now please demonstrate how you know your assertion.
Or is this an example of your "non-God-breathed and yet inspired and authoritative teaching"? How do you know it is?
N: How do I know my assertion? By basic logic.


Please give us the logical structure of the way you know that, since you know it "by basic logic".

Wednesday, April 07, 2010

Patrick Madrid: Here's Why You Shouldn't Trust the Pope

Why should anyone care what the Pope says without using the charism of papal infallibility? Patrick Madrid's latest blog article explains why one should be cautious using a Pope's opinion for proof of truth:

It is a well known fact that Pope John Paul II, of blessed memory, was a stalwart supporter of Fr. Marcial Maciel, the disgraced, recently deceased founder of the Legionaries of Christ religious order and its lay arm, Regnum Christi. I can only assume that John Paul was truly ignorant of the many frauds Fr. Maciel had perpetrated for decades. How it is that the pope did not know the truth about that dastardly man is beyond me, but I'm not focusing on that question here. It's sufficient to remind ourselves that the charism of papal infallibility does not extend to the pope's private, personal opinions about people and things.

As we now know, Pope John Paul II was utterly wrong about Fr. Maciel. He had completely misjudged him. Like a whole lot of other people, including a few popes who came before him, John Paul was conned by a consummate con-man. His approval of the vaunted Mexican priest was in complete error. The gestures of honor and confidence with which he generously betokened Fr. Maciel over many years were completely undeserved. His famous comment that Maciel was "an efficacious guide to youth" could not have been more hideously incorrect.

We know that now. We know now the sordid details of many of the enormous frauds and crimes and sins which Fr. Maciel perpetrated over his lifetime. Since his demise, they have continued to belch forth from the grave like a sulfurous semi-dormant volcano that will emit its noxious fumes for a long time to come.

-snip-

Remember: Pope John Paul II was convinced that Fr. Maciel was a holy priest, an exemplary and faithful Catholic, and "an efficacious guide to youth." He could not have been more wrong about that.

Tuesday, April 06, 2010

The Perpetual Use of Calvin on Mary's Perpetual Virginity

TurretinFan has posted: Calvin and the Perpetual Virginity (?) of Mary ... plus the Real Francis Turretin. Keep it bookmarked, because Calvin is often brought forth as a witness for Roman Catholic Mariology.

I've done a few links on this topic as well:

On John Calvin's "Mariology"

John Calvin on the Greatness of Mary

John Calvin on Latria and Dulia

Bibliographic Tedium on the Reformers and Perpetual Virginity

The closest I recall coming to actual information about Calvin holding positively to Mary's perpetual virginity was in a discussion with Paul Hoffer in a comment box on this blog. If I recall, he had a secondary source in French with Calvin quotes, but no context. That discussion is somewhere buried on the blog.

The Quotable Sippo #11

I have an occasional feature called, "The Quotable Sippo." It's very simple, I just let Catholic apologist Art Sippo speak for himself. Recently, Dr. Sippo provided some of his insights, and well... let's just let the good doctor speak for himself.

Dr. Sippo answered this question: "I seem to remember a semi-famous quote by a visitor to St. Peter's Basilica when, asked whether he thought it was beautiful, answered by saying something like "yes, but was it worth schism?" Anybody recall the circumstances here?"

What the interlocator meant was that the indulgence to raise funds for the building of St.Peter's Basilica was the proximate cause of Luther's revolt.

In answer to the question, the answer is "Yes, it was worth it." Doing something beautiful for God is always superior than the self-righteousness of those who prefer their own will to that of the will of God. Man made religion tickles men's ears and never offends them. I think every Protestant should look at St.Peter's and regret his loss.

These same people took over Westminster Abbey in London and turned it into an ugly puritanical dump. They got rid of all the frescoes and the statues of the saints and replaced them with pictures and statues of English Protestants who were PATRONS of the sovereigns, not saintly people. There is a FULL SIZED efigy [sic] of Queen Elizabeth, the bastard daughter of Henry VIII, but not a single statue of Jesus. And both Charles Darwin and Benedict Armold [sic] are buried in state there. I think that says it all. [source]

Monday, April 05, 2010

Sola Scriptura in Action

Here's reason number #986 why I keep the book Holy Scripture: The Ground and Pillar of Our Faith Volume One on my desk.

On another blog, I had a brief interaction with someone who claimed to not be Roman Catholic. He stated, "I don't need to be [Roman Catholic] to realize Sola Scriptura is fatally flawed."

I told him if sola scriptura is fatally flawed, this certainly isn't proven by Roman Catholic claims or argumentation. Like Romanists, if this non-Roman Catholic has God's voice somewhere else other than the Scriptures, he needs to prove it. Till then, I'll stick with that which is God breathed and which can thoroughly equip a believer (2 Tim. 3:16). I don't recall God mentioning Tradition or an infallible magisterium was "God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

I never did find out exactly what position this particular non-Roman Catholic held, he never told me. He did though respond to the above:

James, Ah, not so fast. The NIV has for 2 Ti 3:17, "thoroughly equipped for every good work", but many translations, like the ESV and NASB, don't have the word "thoroughly". And look at James 1:4. The NIV has "Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." So perseverance will make you complete and lacking nothing? Scripture will do that, and so can perseverance? Obviously, you're taking 2 Ti 3:17 out of context. In fact, look at how the King James version translates James 1:4: "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be PERFECT and ENTIRE, wanting NOTHING." It's making an even stronger case for perseverance, much stronger than the case for the Scriptures in 2 Ti 3:16-17. So bible-only Christians are misusing 2 Ti 3:16-17.

In 2 Tim. 3:17, Paul uses the Greek participle exertismenos which is the participle form of exartizo. It means 'having been completely or fully equipped,' so, it doesn't matter which translation you use, the Greek says what the Greek says. If you can point to God's voice elsewhere other than scripture sovereignty declaring what is need to be completely or fully equipped, please do so. As to any other passage that would use similar phraseology, it needs to be noted that whatever other passage you use... they are all Scripture, and as such form and norm moral behavior. Apart from Scripture, you would have no way of knowing that "perseverance must finish its work...etc."

I was able to put forth this response because I remembered the same type of argument was put forth by Robert Sungenis:

If we were to use the concept of `sufficiency' that Protestants force into 2 Timothy 3:17, we could claim, in light of the similar language in 2 Timothy 2:21, that refraining from bad influences and behavior is all that is needed to make a man useful for every good work [Not By Scripture Alone, p.117].

...And then this argument was responded to by David King in depth in the span of two or three pages. Here's though is the relevant section that helped me in my response:

Sungenis notes that the phrase `every good work' is found in six other places in the New Testament (2 Tim. 2:21; Col. 1:10; 2 Thess. 2:17; 1 Tim. 5:10; 2 Cor. 9:8; Titus 1:16; Titus 3:1;'or Hebrews 13:21). His intent is to try to prove that Scripture itself teaches that Scripture alone is not sufficient to prepare one for every good work, since it teaches that God uses other means in addition to Scripture to accomplish that purpose. But with respect to each occurrence of `every good work' in the Pastoral Epistles (or elsewhere in Scripture for that matter), it needs to be noted that these passages are all Scripture, and as such form and norm moral behavior. Apart from Scripture, Sungenis would have no way of knowing they exist! Using 2 Timothy 2:21 to argue against the sufficiency of Scripture, he unwittingly proves the very point he seeks to undermine. Other Scriptural instances of `every good work' cited by Sungenis do not advance his claim against the sufficiency of Scripture, but rather, we find Scripture fulfilling the very purpose for which it was given as described in 2 Timothy 3:1617, namely, informing and norming for us `instruction for righteousness.., for every good work.' The question is not whether the disciplines are necessary, but what is the source of revelation which reveals them as necessary? With every quote from Scripture, Sungenis only succeeds in demonstrating that the revelatory source, by which these disciplines are normed, is none other than holy Scripture itself. [David King, Holy Scripture The Ground and Pillar of Our Faith Volume One, pp. 85-86].

Sunday, April 04, 2010

What Constitutes a Correct "Roman Catholic" View of Luther?


Heinrich Denifle was learned Roman Catholic scholar in the 1800's. The Catholic Encyclopedia states he was “beloved by Leo XIII and Pius X.” He was also an accomplished scholar, with groundbreaking work on the relationship between scholastic theology and medieval mysticism. When he began a work on Luther, Leo XIII opened the secret archives of the Vatican to scholars. Luther’s then-unknown Roman’s treatise was found, and Denifle working as an assistant archivist was able to utilize it. The announcement that Father Denifle was going to publish a biography including never before writings from Luther was highly anticipated in the academic world.

But Denifle's work on Luther has not stood the test of time as a valuable historical resource. Both Protestants and Roman Catholics scholars say the work is quite flawed. Even another Roman Catholic writer (Hartmann Grisar) from the same time period (and no friend to Luther) corrected and challenged points Denifle raised.

The following is an interesting point made by Grisar in his first volume on Luther as to how a Roman Catholic view on Luther should be constructed:

Does a Catholic opinion exist with regard to Luther's personal qualities and his fate? Does the much-discussed work of Denifle represent the "Catholic feeling"? That it does has frequently been asserted by those most strongly opposed to Denifle. Yet Denifle's manner of regarding Luther was, on the whole, by no means simply "Catholic," but largely biased by his individual opinion, as indeed has ever been the appreciation by Catholic authors of the different points of Luther's character. Only on those points could Denifle's opinion strictly be styled "Catholic" where he makes the direct acknowledgment of dogmas and the essential organisation of the Church the standard for Luther's views and reforms; and in this he certainly had on his side the repudiation of Luther by all Catholics. A "Catholic opinion," in any other sense than the above, is the sheerest nonsense, and the learned Dominican would certainly have been the last to make such a claim on his own behalf. [source]

I've argued this point for years with Roman Catholics, and it was refreshing to actually read it coming from a Roman Catholic source: "Only on those points could Denifle's opinion strictly be styled "Catholic" where he makes the direct acknowledgment of dogmas and the essential organisation of the Church the standard for Luther's views and reforms." I've taken this a step further and questioned whether or not later Roman Catholic dogmas after Luther's death can be applied posthumously.

Indeed, "A 'Catholic opinion,' in any other sense than the above, is the sheerest nonsense."

Saturday, April 03, 2010

Polemic Theology: How to Deal with Those Who Differ from Us

Here's an interesting article from Roger Nicole: Polemic Theology: How to Deal with Those Who Differ from Us.

What Do I Owe to the Person Who Differs From Me?

What Can I Learn from Those Who Differ From Me?

How Can I Cope with Those Who Differ from Me?

Food for thought. Here's an interesting snippet:

How then do we desire to be treated? First, we want people to know what we are saying or meaning. If we are going to voice differences, therefore, we have an obligation to make a serious effort to understand the person with whom we differ. That person may have published books or articles. Then we should be acquainted with those writings. It is not appropriate for us to voice sharp differences if we have neglected to read what is available. The person with whom we differ should have evidence that we have read carefully what has been written and that we have attempted to understand its meaning. In the case of an oral exchange where we don't have any written words, we owe the person who differs from us the courtesy to listen carefully to what he or she says. Rather than preparing to pounce on that person the moment he or she stops talking, we should concentrate on apprehending precisely what his or her position is.

In this respect, Dr. Cornelius Van Til has given us a splendid example. As you may know, he expressed very strong objections to the theology of Karl Barth. This was so strong that Barth claimed that Van Til simply did not understand him. It has been my privilege to be at Dr. Van Til's office and to see with my own eyes the bulky tomes of Barth's, Kirchliche Dogmatik (incidentally, these volumes were the original German text, not an English translation). As I leafed through them I did not see one page that was not constellated with underlining, double-underlining, marginal annotations, exclamation points, and question marks galore. So here is someone who certainly did not say, "I know Karl Barth well; I understand his stance; I don't need to read any more of this; I can move on with what I have." Each of the volumes, including the most recent, gave evidence of very, very careful scrutiny. So when we take issue with somebody, we need to do the job that is necessary to know that person so that we are not voicing our criticism in the absence of knowledge but that we are proceeding from the vantage point of real acquaintance.

Friday, April 02, 2010

Review- Luther: The Rest of the Story by Ken Hensley (Part One)

More than a few times I've heard Catholic Answers recommend Luther: The Rest of the Story By Ken Hensley (2003). It isn't a book, but rather a series of three lectures, available on CD, and via MP3 download from Saint Joseph Communications. As of the writing of this review, used copies of the CD's are available on Amazon for $65 up to $161.00. Why? I'm not sure, as the new sets are only $23. Perhaps materials from Saint Joseph Communications are collectible.

The lectures are advertised as follows:

Luther: The Rest of the Stroy [sic] CD
In an uncompromisingly Catholic presentation on the true teachings of the man who changed the face of Christianity. A former Protestant Pastor, Hensley brings a unique perspective to the critical examination of a man whose doctrines he once held with great devotion. As you listen to his in-depth analysis on three digitally mastered CDs, you’ll discover Luther’s theological, personal and historical background and motivations, from the testimony of his own writings. And follow the tangled web woven by the “Father of the Reformation” from the day he nailed his infamous 95 theses on the door of the Castle Church at Wittenberg to the theological wreckage of modern Protestantism. [
source]

...[T]his is no inflammatory “tell-all” exposé but an intelligent (and entertaining) investigation into the real-life convictions and contradictions of this controversial figure. Here at last is a serious discussion of Luther from a Catholic perspective that’s insightful, informative and, best of all, suitable to share with Protestant (and fallen-away Catholic) friends and family.

Whatever your opinion of Luther and his religious revolt, you owe it to yourself to discover the surprising truth about his actual teachings and his little-known devotion to much that has been rejected by his spiritual descendants. With Ken Hensley’s perceptive presentation and analysis, Luther: The Rest of the Story will equip you to effectively defend Catholic truth, but also to better understand the reality of many important theological and historical misconceptions. Get ready — it’s time to set the record straight! [source]


After listening to almost all of these three lectures, I decided a review of Hensley's arguments would be a worthy endeavour. I strongly disagree with the above advertising blurbs. The lectures, while at times cordial and entertaining, present the typical negative outdated polemic that so infects pop-Roman Catholic apologetics.

About Ken Hensley
Previous to listening to this series, I hadn't heard of Mr. Hensley. He appears to be a speaker still affiliated with Saint Joseph Communications (SJC). SJC is most famous for its star apologist, Dr. Scott Hahn. Hahn and Hensley knew each other previous to their "conversions" to the Roman Catholic Church, and Hahn played a role in Hensley's conversion to Romanism.

Hensley was a former American Baptist minister (of eleven years), and became Roman Catholic in 1996. A truncated discussion of his conversion story was given on Catholic Answers many years ago (MP3 available here). He received his Bachelors Degree in Scripture and Theology from Grace Bible College and his MA degree from Fuller Theological Seminary.

In lecture one he mentions he had only been a Christian one or two years in Junior college when he first heard about Martin Luther via the old 1953 movie. He mentions that the movie so impressed and inspired him, it left him with tears in his eyes and a desire to be like the man portrayed in the movie. Subsequently, he read thousands of pages of Luther's writings, took an entire course at Fuller on the theology of Martin Luther, and owns (and has read) a number of biographies on Luther. Thus, his qualifications for giving these lectures are: his previous education and readings, Baptist ministry, and conversion to Roman Catholicism. He's a man who has seen both sides: Protestantism and Roman Catholicism. Who better to explain Luther than a former Protestant turned Roman Catholic?

Qualified to Tell the Rest of the Story?
After listening to his Luther series I do have reservations as to Hensley's qualifications to tell "the rest of the story" about Luther. In this short MP3 clip from his Catholic Answers interview, he says the worldview of Protestantism was "assumed" rather than explored at seminary. That is, the direct conflict that gave birth to the Reformation was not looked at with any appropriate depth. How then a seminary level class on Luther's theology was handled at Fuller is indeed a mystery, since Luther's paradigms are best understood against the backdrop of the sixteenth century Church. I also have had a seminary level class on Luther's theology. Understanding the culture and theology of the sixteenth century was a crucial aspect to grasping the material. The conflict which caused the Reformation couldn't be missed.

Second, "Lutheran" and "American Baptist" are not quite two pegs which fit in the same hole. Luther's theological paradigms are not typically studied and digested by those who aren't Lutheran. The longer I study Luther's theology, the more I realize his theology isn't Reformed, Baptist, or Methodist, etc. While there are points of agreement, it's a different breed of cat, so to speak. I would be more willing to grant that a former (conservative!) Lutheran minister would be able to tell "the rest of the story" about Luther than I would a former American Baptist. If Hensley so wanted to be like Luther, becoming an American Baptist instead requires quite a number of disagreements with Luther's theology. In fact, I would say that an American Baptist could likewise tell their own story about their disagreements with Luther.

As to his assertion that he'd read thousands of pages of Luther and many biographies previous to these lectures, the material presented didn't give me much confidence in such claims. He quotes heavily from Roland Bainton's Here I Stand and Heiko Obermann's Luther: Man Between God and the Devil. He also mentions The Theology of Luther by Paul Althaus in passing. He claims that citing Luther directly from his own writings is of great importance to his lectures, but he presents many of the popular quotes typically sifted from Luther's writings used by earlier generations of Roman Catholic polemicists. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out Patrick O'Hare's The Facts About Luther was also consulted, as well as other Roman Catholic books slanted against Luther. More often than not, it was those context-less quotes I've seen a thousand times typically brought up by Roman Catholics that Hensley used. Thus I really do wonder if the quotes came more from Luther-hostile sources than Hensley's own readings of Luther. This will be demonstrated as the Luther quotes used are reviewed.

Conclusion
It's not my intention to slander Mr. Hensley. Rather, any who read this blog know that I often review Luther materials put out by Roman Catholics. Some of the material he presented was quite interesting. In fact, in this blog entry I made reference to Hensley's opinion on Luther's early journey to Rome. Hensley comes right out and says Rome was more or less morally depraved from head to toe. That Luther questioned his faith in Rome should be of no surprise. In fact, Hensley says if Papal leadership doesn't act morally, this is what one should expect of her faithful followers. I add, Hensley's comments should be applied to Rome's current scandal.

His section on Justification in lecture two would truly befuddle many Protestants. His argumentation is clear, and I commend him for laying out Rome's position in such a way that it could be easily understood by a nominal Roman Catholic while at the same time send a Protestant back to the Bible in search of an exegetical response.

It might take a while to work through Hensley's series. But, I think any Protestant coming in contact with the material presented would be hard pressed to formulate a response without being familiar with the issues raised, both biographical and theological. This doesn't mean I've ceased reviewing Biblical Catholic Answers for John Calvin. I plan doing that at one entry per week, or when I get to it.

Thursday, April 01, 2010

Luther: The history of Jonah is so monstrous that it is absolutely incredible

Allegedly, "The history of Jonah is so monstrous that it is absolutely incredible ... " according to Luther. In this brief snippet, the implication may be that Luther denied the historical account of Jonah and the whale, and therefore denied the miraculous, and is also probably like one of those liberal scholars who interprets the Bible as fictional literature rather than history. Or quite possibly, he just said awful things about Holy Scripture.

This is from a Tabletalk entry, and not something Luther actually wrote. You can read the context for yourself. It does no harm to Luther.

The majesty of the prophet Jonah is surpassing. He has but four chapters, and yet he moved therewith the whole kingdom, so that in his weakness, he was justly a figure and a sign of the Lord Christ. Indeed, it is surprising, that Christ should recur to this but in four words. Moses likewise, in few words describes the creation, the history of Abraham, and other great mysteries; but he spends much time in describing the tent, the external sacrifices, the kidneys and so on; the reason is, he saw that the world greatly esteemed outward things, which they beheld with their carnal eyes, but. that which was spiritual, they soon forgot.

The history of the prophet Jonah is almost incredible, sounding more strange than any poet's fable; if it were not in the Bible, I should take it for a lie; for consider, how for the space of three days he was in the great belly of the whale, whereas in three hours he might have been digested and changed into the nature, flesh and blood of that monster; may not this be said, to live in the midst of death? In comparison of this miracle, the wonderful passage through the Red Sea was nothing

But what appears more strange is, that after he was delivered, he began to be angry, and to expostulate with the gracious God, touching a small matter not worth a straw. It is a great mystery. I am ashamed of my exposition upon this prophet, in that I so weakly touch the main point of this wonderful miracle. [
source]

Monday, March 29, 2010

Are There Biblical Catholic Answers for John Calvin? (Part Four)

In a self-published Roman Catholic book comes the following quotation from John Calvin:
At present I only reply in one word, that our Saviour’s promise is made to those only who assemble in his name. How, then, is such an assembly to be defined? I deny that those assemble in the name of Christ who, disregarding his command by which he forbids anything to be added to the word of God or taken from it, determine everything at their own pleasure, who, not contented with the oracles of Scripture, that is, with the only rule of perfect wisdom, devise some novelty out of their own head (Deut. 4:2; Rev. 22:18). . . . Let my opponents solve this difficulty if they would subject my faith to the decrees of man, without authority from the word of God. (IV, 9:2)
The author uses this Calvin quote under the heading, "The Catholic Church vs. the Bible?" He concludes Calvin here is saying Rome's doctrine is unscriptural because... Calvin says it is. The author contends "It is simply not the case that Catholics ignore Scripture in setting forth their theological views" (p.17).

What is Calvin actually saying? The section from the Institutes begins Calvin's look at Councils and their authority (one wouldn't figure this out from the author's citation). Calvin begins in IV- 9.1 noting his esteem for ancient church councils. In IV-9.2 Calvin uses the criterion that a Council gathers in Christ's name when its goal is not to add or subtract from God's word. Calvin says that it's meaningless for his opponents to cite councils in response to him if they haven't first established that those councils really were gathered in Christ's name. Calvin says,
Ungodly and evil bishops can just as much conspire against Christ as good and honest ones can come together in his name. We have clear proof of this fact in a great many decrees that have come forth from such councils. But this will appear later.
Calvin does cover this later (in IV-9.8-9). Calvin isn't making a blanket statement that all Roman Catholics "ignore Scripture in setting forth their theological views." He may make statements like this, but he certainly isn't making it here. He's arguing that when his opponents cite a Council to him, they need to first establish that council is not adding or subtracting to God's word. Calvin says,
It will benefit our adversaries but little to mention councils of bishops a thousand times over; nor will they persuade us to believe what they contend—that councils are governed by the Holy Spirit — before they convince us that these have been gathered in Christ’s name.
This is a great example of how the author reads a text. He argues about a point Calvin isn't even making at the moment. If the author really wanted to respond to Calvin, he should at least respond to the argument being made. Why not argue against Calvin about who decides if a Council is meeting in Christ's name? Why not argue who determines if someone is adding or subtracting to God's word? What criteria serves as a guideline to determine an addition or subtraction? If I were a Roman Catholic reading this section of the Institutes, that's what I would ask.

Friday, March 26, 2010

Skip the "Middle Man" as the Middle Man Requested

The Catholic Champion has presented James Swan: Begging the Question on Sola Scriptura.

A few weeks back he put forth Revolutionizing Catholic Apologetics: Cutting Out The Middle Man and also wrote this.

So, shouldn't I simply skip the middle man? Exactly why should I read Matthew's response according to Matthew's own logic? He should just simply point me to which books would be the best response. But wait... that's the middle man pointing me to the best books.

I guess I'm stuck with the middle man is some regard until the magisterium does something, anything.... but their hands are full with lawsuits and allegations this week, so perhaps next week they can work on a good list of resources in response to my comments on sola scriptura.

Since Matthew recommends skipping the middle man, the argumentation I'd use in response to him would be found here. I suggest Matthew purchase this book and get right to the source of my argumentation.

By the way, I'm still hopeful Matthew will provide a list of which "middle men" to avoid. How do we know according to Matthew who qualifies as a "middle man"? Matthew states:

"The best place to start your research is by using faithful, well educated scholars and clergy to compile your material from, as well as the original sources of the Church, Church Fathers and the Saints."

Matthew suggests cutting out the middle men will revolutionize Romanist apologetics. Every revolution requires sacrifice, so let's get started with a list:


Patrick Madrid
Steve Ray
Tim Staples
Karl Keating
Mark Shea
John Martignoni
Matthew Bellisario


I'm willing to sacrifice the insights of these guys. Whom else could we do without?

Thursday, March 25, 2010

Luther a Murderer?

On a recent post I mentioned Mitch Pacwa's upcoming Reformation video series. Pacwa was recently on Catholic Answers to discuss the project. He's looking to do a ten part series on the Reformation from a Roman Catholic perspective. I mentioned Pacwa says Luther "apparently had killed somebody in a duel" (here is the audio clip).

Buried in my e-mail spam was a tip from someone who thinks he might know where Pacwa got this tidbit from:

A German biographer named Hans-Joachim Neumann published a book in 1995 entitled Luthers Leiden (English title Luther's Suffering) in which he puts together some circumstantial evidence that in 1505 Luther killed a friend of his in a duel, the friend's name being Hieronimus Buntz, and that the reason Luther entered the monastery was to escape punishment.

So based on this tidbit, I've been looking around for more information. On this web page comes the following:
Luther’s biographer and admirer, Hans-Joachim Neumann has put together much circumstantial evidence, which indicates, that Luther (who was named ”Luder” until 1520) killed his friend Hieronimus Buntz in a duel in 1505 and entered a monastery to escape punishment. In addition, Luder had a relationship with a married woman since 1503. (Luthers Leiden [Luther’s Suffering] ob cit., p. 15 ff.)
Now the webpage is a typical example of Internet propaganda. However, that doesn't necessarily mean this fact is incorrect. Here's another web page tidbit translated from the German:
Evidence suggesting that Luther killed his friend in the dispute Hieronimus Buntz. 1529 Luther wrote about his time monk: "A man slayer I was" and the biographer of Veit Dietrich, 1532, the Table Talk Luther noted: "After the extraordinary decree of God, I was made a monk, so they do not take me prisoner. Otherwise I would be very easy been caught. As it was, they could not, because it took me to the whole Order. "
And another (Translated from Swedish):
There have been two duels, where Luther attended during his undergraduate studies. The first duel was under Dietrich Emmes inquiries between Luther and Conrad Wigant April 16, 1503 near Stotternheim. The second duel was fought between Luther and Hieronimus Buntz in January 1505 and died in that regard Buntz. Where it happened is still an open question.
And another (translated from Spanish)






As to Hans-Joachim Neumann's book, he's a professor and maxillofacial surgeon at the teaching hospital of the Humboldt University in Berlin. His book attempts to use current medical knowledge on Luther. That is, he looks at Luther's health from the historical reports, and then at times diagnoses his suffering and how that impacted his work.

I put this post together in about twenty minutes, so when I have more time, I'll be looking further into this based on the clues above.

Addendum #1
Just to prove I'm not the meanie some think I am, I searched the term "Dietrich Emme" and found a helpful bit of information via this link (Give credit when it's due). This blog posted an edited snippet from the magazine, Thirty Days: "Struck, But Not By Lightning," by Tommaso Ricci, No. 2, 1992, pp. 62-64), worth checking out on this topic.

I'm always curious as to the Roman Catholic interpretation of Luther and the Reformation. I do like Mitch Pacwa, but I've heard him say some not so true historical stuff on Luther and the Reformation over the years. Perhaps now that he'll be focusing directly on Luther and the Reformation, his facts will be updated. Sometimes we hear stuff, and just repeat it, not realizing it's wrong. With this particular event (or non-event), I'm hopeful he'll be fair. The conclusions seem to be based on circumstantial evidence, and it's interesting that not too many people have picked up on this, leading me to believe it's not compelling circumstantial evidence. Even Pacwa used the word "apparently". On the other hand, even if this "duel" is true, it doesn't change anything.

Addendum #2
Some of the editors of Luther's Works responed to this entry, and left the following comment:

Rev. Dr. Benjamin T. G. Mayes said...
Was Luther a murderer?

In the early 1980's, Dietrich Emme popularized the theory that Martin Luther entered the Augustinian monastery in Erfurt not due to his experience in a storm, but in order to escape prosecution after killing a companion (Hieronymus Buntz) in a duel in 1505 (Martin Luther: Sein Jugend- und Studentenzeit 1483-1505 [Cologne, 1982]). Emme's work on this point has been widely dismissed in recent scholarship as piling one speculative conclusion upon another (e.g., Andreas Lindner, "Was geschah in Stotternheim," in C. Bultmann, V. Leppin, eds., Luther und das monastische Erbe [Tübingen, 2007], pp. 109-10; cf. Franz Posset, The Front-Runner of the Catholic Reformation: The Life and Works of Johann von Staupitz[Aldershot: Ashgate, 2003], 94, and the response by Helmar Junghans, Lutherjahrbuch 72 [2005]:190).

The standard biographer of Luther claims that Hieronymus Buntz died of plague (Martin Brecht, Martin Luther: His Road to Reformation, 1483-1521 [Minneapolis: Fortress, 1985], 47), and this is documented in sources from 1505 (http://books.google.com/books?id=r2hHAAAAYAAJ&dq=Hieronymus%20Buntz&as_brr=3&pg=PA34#v=onepage&q=Hieronymus%20Buntz&f=false).

The "duel theory" relies on one of Luther's Table Talks: "By the singular plan of God I became a monk, so that they would not capture me. Otherwise I would have been captured easily. But they were not able to do it, because the entire Order took care of me" (D. Martin Luthers Werke: kritische Gesamtausgabe[Weimar Edition]: Tischreden, vol. 1 [Weimar: Hermann Böhlaus Nachfolger, 1912], p. 134, no. 326). Yet this refers to the Augustinian order's protection of Luther from Rome in 1518, not a putative flight from prosecution for dueling in 1505.

If Luther's "duel" were true, it would have been a matter of rather public knowledge, both casually, among students and the monks, and officially, both with whatever civil or episcopal authorities were supposedly trying to arrest Luther, as well as because a dispensation would have been required for Luther's ordination (homicide being a canonical impediment for the sacrament of order). In other words, it would be practically unthinkable that when the Roman Catholic polemical biographer of Luther, Johannes Cochlaeus, was searching for data about Luther's monastic career (and coming up with stories like Luther wailing in the choir) that such a "fact," if true or even rumored, would not have emerged.

Dr. Christopher Boyd Brown, general editor, Luther’s Works: American Edition
Dr. Benjamin T. G. Mayes, managing editor, Luther’s Works: American Edition
Addendum #3
This entry was revised 4/3/2018 for formatting and dead links. Also, here is the audio clip of Father Pacwa saying Luther killed someone in a duel.

Tuesday, March 23, 2010

Are There Biblical Catholic Answers for John Calvin? (Part Two)

I debated as to who to follow in my review of a recent Roman Catholic book on John Calvin. Calvin's order or that put forth by a Roman Catholic author. Common sense tells me to follow the order of argumentation set forth by Calvin, but since this review is on the analysis put forth by a Roman Catholic author, I'm going to journey through his book via his order. Unfortunately, this is like cooking pasta in a big bowl, then trying to organize each strand into a picture of the Mona Lisa. For instance, the very first snippet of analysis put forth by the author is directed toward the thirteenth point of a sixteen point extended argument from Calvin.

I'll begin where this Roman Catholic author begins. I'll note the title of his section, and provide the reference to The Institutes. To follow along, simply read the section of Calvin's Institutes noted. I'll be using both the Battles and Beveridge translations. For anyone time challenged, consult Analysis of the Institutes of the Christian Religion of John Calvin (New Jersey: P and R Publishing, 1980). This text outlines Calvin's actual argument in each section.

1. The Catholic Church vs. the Bible?
This particular  Roman Catholic author begins with an edit of IV, 8:13 and one sentence from IV, 17:48 ". . . the ministers of Satan, whose usual practice is to hold the Scriptures in derision, . . ."). He comments:
The Catholic Church doesn't create dogmas with utter disregard for Scripture (quite the contrary). Calvin fails to document what he charges. We make no such dichotomy. Calvin does because he thinks in "either/or" terms: for him, if there is true Church authority, this must somehow inexorably be opposed to Scripture in some essential fashion. It's simply not true.
From his reading, the author sees Calvin positing the Roman church doesn't rely on Scripture when it creates dogma. Perhaps he has these key sentences from Calvin in view:
Their statement that the church cannot err bears on this point, and this is how they interpret it—inasmuch as the church is governed by the Spirit of God, it can proceed safely without the Word; no matter where it may go, it can think or speak only what is true; accordingly, if it should ordain anything beyond or apart from God’s Word, this must be taken as nothing but a sure oracle of God.
And:
Now it is easy to conclude how wrongly our opponents act when they boast of the Holy Spirit solely to commend with his name strange doctrines foreign to God’s Word—while the Spirit wills to be conjoined with God’s Word by an indissoluble bond, and Christ professes this concerning him when he promises the Spirit to his church.
Calvin's Argument
In IV, 8:13 Calvin argues against the claim that the church cannot err because it's governed by God's Spirit. Rome also claims the ability to ordain doctrine beyond what was set down in Scripture. Footnote #15 of the Battles translation documents this by appealing to Cochlaeus, De authoritate ecclesiae (1524) I. v, fo. C 1b; I. 6, fo. C 3b; De Castro, Adversus haereses I (1543, fo. 8 B-10 G). In the very next section (IV, 8:14) Calvin goes on to expand this by saying:
Here again they mutter that the church needed to add some things to the writings of the apostles, or that the apostles themselves afterward properly supplied through a living voice what they had not clearly enough taught. For, of course, Christ said to the apostles, “I have many things to say to you which you cannot bear now” [John 16:12]. These, they explain, are decrees which, apart from Scripture, have been accepted only by use and custom.
Again, this is substantiated by footnote #17- Cochlaeus, op. cit., I. 4, fo. B 4a; I. 8, fo. E 2a; Eck, Enchiridion (1535), fo. 21ab. In Eck's Enchiridion we find the following statement:
Not only are those things expressly stated in the Scriptures or proved from them to be believed and kept (something the Lutherans are willing to do), but also it is necessary to believe and keep those things Holy Mother Church believes and observes. For not everything has been clearly handed down in the Sacred Scriptures, but very many have been left to the Church to determine (which is illumined and governed by the Holy Spirit, and on this account cannot wander from the path of truth). Hence the Savior said to his disciples [Jn 16:12f ]: "I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now. But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth." Therefore the Church observes in its rites and ceremonies many things, from the intimate inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and the tradition of the Apostles, and of the holy fathers, which even if not expressly stated in the Scriptures, yet it is wicked to depart from them or take exception to them. Indeed these things are most confirmed to them, and on that account are to be enforced and observed by all true evangelical and Pauline Christians (such do the Lutherans falsely boast themselves to be). "Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle" [2 Thess 2;14]. [Enchiridion of Commonplaces (Michigan: Baker Books, 1979), p.46].
One finds this very issue (the contents of Scripture and Tradition) debated at the Council of Trent. Rome declared that the truth of God is found both in the Scriptures and in the Tradition of the church. James Boice points out,
A technical point of historical research concerning Trent sheds some interesting light on the matter. In the original draft of the fourth session of Trent the decree read that “the truths … are contained partly [partim] in Scripture and partly [partim] in the unwritten traditions.” But at a decisive point in the Council’s deliberations two priests, Nacchianti and Bonnucio rose in protest against the partim … partim formula. These men protested on the grounds that this view would destroy the uniqueness and sufficiency of Scripture. All we know from that point on is that the words partly … partly were removed from the text and replaced by the word and (et). Did this mean that the Council responded to the protest and perhaps left the relationship between Scripture and Tradition purposely ambiguous? Was the change stylistic, meaning that the Council still maintained two distinct sources of revelation? These questions are the focus of the current debate among Roman theologians. [“Sola Scriptura: Crucial to Evangelicalism.” The Foundations of Biblical Authority. James M. Boice, ed. Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1980].
It is a simple historical fact that those Roman theologians contemporary with the Reformers viewed God's truth also elsewhere than solely in Scripture. David Bagchi notes,
Luther's characteristic position was that no doctrine not found in Scripture can be enjoined as generally necessary for salvation. This view was universally condemned by Catholics, principally on two grounds that were themselves drawn from Scripture. First, Christ said much to his apostles that is not recorded in Scripture (John 21:25). This apostolic tradition was reputed to include such practices as praying toward the east and observing Sunday as the Christian sabbath, and such doctrines as the generation of the Son from the Father. Second, Christ told his apostles that they could not yet bear the whole truth and promised them the Holy Spirit, which would lead them into all truth (John 16:12-13).70 This was taken as a guarantee of the trustworthiness of established custom, consuetudo ecclesiae. [David Bagchi, Luther's Earliest Opponents (Minnieapolis: fortress Press, 1991), p. 163]
And also:
The early canons of Gratian, especially Ecclesiasticarum, In his rebus, and Catholica, are clear that Scripture, apostolic tradition, and local and universal customs (provided that they contravene neither positive law nor the law of reason) have equal force. Apostolic tradition was, of course, a fixed body of instructions, the contents of which were well known from references to it made by the fathers. What local and universal customs embraced was, however, not so evident. Clearly they were less ancient than the apostolic traditions, but how ancient did a custom have to be for it to be traditional? The fact that many of the beliefs and practices the Romanists defended as traditional or customary were of recent date caused them little embarrassment. This must not surprise us, for their appeal was ultimately not to antiquity, nor to catholicity, but to the fact that the doctrine or discipline at issue belonged to that church to which Christ had promised the Spirit of truth. The process of being led into all truth was one that nullified all considerations of antiquity and universality, "for the Spirit blows not only where it will, but also when it will" [Ibid., p.166].
Conclusion
Here we have clear truth that the Roman theologians of Calvin's day argued for a second vehicle of God's revealed truth outside of Scripture. This content was different than that contained in the Scripture. This is in fact how Rome's sixteenth century apologists argued against the Reformers, and this is the argument Calvin is responding to. Is the contemporary Roman author's analysis of Calvin accurate? No, he completely misses Calvin's argument, and the historical context in which the argument was made. Indeed, the Roman church today attempts to dress everything up with Scripture, but back then, Rome's apologists had no trouble stating God's truth was also outside of the Bible (ironically, even many of Rome's modern defenders say this). This is a perfect example of what Steve Hays stated:
[Calvin's Institutes] was written at a very different time and place. To correctly interpret Calvin, you’d need to know about his intellectual influences, the socioeconomic and political conditions of the day, the historical antecedents to his theological terminology, the identity of his theological opponents, and century. What may be common knowledge for someone living in the 16th Century is hardly common knowledge for someone living in the 21st Century.