Responses to Andy Stanley

Articles by Dr. Michael Kruger and Dr. Al Mohler and Dr. James White spent 7 Dividing Line programs on these issues that are connected to the methods of Andy Stanley's view of Scripture, evangelism, seeker-sensitive emphasis, easy -believe-ism, and his erroneous views of church and church discipline; and apologetic methodology.

https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2016/09/26/responses-to-andy-stanley-and-his-statement-that-the-bible-is-not-the-foundation-of-the-christian-faith-and-other-issues/

In an age of Jihad and political fear-mongering, Jesus said, "I will build My Church" - "among all peoples" - sermon by John Piper

This an excellent missions sermon from Matthew 16:13-26, that is very applicable and timely to today's American Christians and the threat of Islamic terrorism and Jihad and the comments that the Jihadism and terrorism of Islam will cause the true believers to live for His kingdom and stop putting their trust in economic strength and military power and politics.  (in light of the current political circus.)

http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/i-will-build-my-church-from-all-peoples

Please listen to Piper's sermon; he says some convicting things that are not all written out in the print version.  Here is an excerpt from the print version:

I listened to Oscar's message last Sunday by tape as soon as I got home from England. It was, as I knew it would be, a powerful call to make disciples and prepare elders for new churches in the age of Jihad, by avoiding unnecessary controversy, being saturated with the Bible, and throwing yourself into difficult ministry where boldness in the Word is necessary. He said the outrageous truth that Jihad is a gift to the American church. Why?

1. Because it forces the nominal Christian bluff; either we get make disciples and plant churches or we will be converted. Islam is out to take the world.
2. It produces economic instability so we are pressed toward the wartime lifestyle we should have been living all along.
3. It helps us identify with the church in the rest of the world, which has known this threat and instability all along. Now we can learn how to prepare elders for the real church.
4. It presses us to center the discipling of our children in the home, because the church building and Pastor John may be blown up anyway. You can't lean on the building or the preacher.
5. It wakes us up to the glorious truth that in the end what matters is the resurrection with Christ. To live is Christ and to die is gain.

Some of my own general comments, inspired by Piper's sermon:

Jesus said, "I will build My Church, and the gates of hades will not prevail against it."  Matthew 16:18

The "Church" is not a building, as buildings can be blown up by Jihadists.  Jesus' Church is not local churches, although Jesus Church is made up of true believers who are members of local churches.  Christ gave Himself for the Church and purchased the Church with His blood (Ephesians 5:25; Acts 20:28; Revelation 5:9), so though the first church in Jerusalem was local and visible (Acts 2:37-46) and local visible churches were started and built all over the Roman Empire and all through history, Jesus' statement about His Church has to be interpreted in the light of those three key passages.  The apostle Paul described "the Church' in very cosmic and universal terms.  (Ephesians 1:22-23; 2:19-22; 3:8-10; 3:20-21)

This has been proven in history by the fact that many local and visible churches have disappeared from history - especially by the advance of Islam in North Africa and the Middle East and Turkey; and the advance of liberal theology in western Europe and USA.  Liberal churches are not true churches anymore.  The Roman Catholic Church is not a true church anymore, since it condemned the Biblical doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone at the Council of Trent in 1545-1563.  Part of the "rock" of the message is that one must repent and trust in Christ alone for salvation, apart from the merit of good works. (Romans 1:17; 3:28; 4:1-16; 5:1; 10:9-10; Galatians 2:16; Acts 15:9; 16:31; John 5:24; 3:16; 11:25; 20:30-31; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9; Acts 13:38-39)  Christ Himself is the rock and foundation (1 Corinthians 10:4; 3:11); and the apostolic doctrine about Christ (Ephesians 2:19-20).

The Church is all the true believers from all nations and cultures who have been purchased by the blood of Christ, those who are truly born again.  (Revelation 5:9; Ephesians 5:25-27, 32; Acts 20:28)

Hades means death.  Hades does not mean the devil or demons or heresies or false doctrines.  Local churches disappeared in history.  (Revelation 2:1-7)  But the one who perseveres and overcomes, that one will be saved.  (verse 7)

Jesus enters the gates of hades and rescues people out of death, because He has the keys of death and hades.  (Revelation 1:18; 20:14-15)

Jesus promised eternal life out from death to true believers.  John 5:24; 11:25  Spiritual Death in hell (the lake of fire) will not overtake true believers - Revelation 20:14-15.

The rock that Jesus builds His church upon is the firm foundational truth of the doctrinal statement that Peter spoke:  "You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God."  (Matthew 16:16) That was the apostolic message that was also given to the other apostles and they preached this, and the doctrine of the Deity of Christ and Trinity are natural truths that are implied by the phrase "the Son of the Living God", along with the explanation of more details of many other verses.

Addendum (Monday, Feb. 29, 2016):  To trust in the Messiah, the Son of the Living God alone, means by necessity, not trusting in one's own good works, and not trusting in Mary or prayers to Mary or other saints also.  It carries with it an implicit confirmation of the doctrine of justification by faith alone.  No wonder Luther said statements that were close to this sentiment, "justification by faith alone is the doctrine by which the church stands or falls.".  It means that Roman Catholicism, with it's emphasis on external rituals and the doctrine of faith plus the merit of works in order to be finally saved out of the possibility of committing mortal sin and winding up in hell and out of purgatory after a "good" RC has to have his/her venial sins purged, and the doctrines of the Papacy, is impossible with a full and genuine trust in Christ alone, as the Messiah, the Son of the Living God.

Barth Quotes Luther on the Nature of the Church... Bogus Quote?

While doing some other studies I came across this page in Karl Barth's Church Dogmatics vol. 1. It is an extended Luther quote Barth used as a forward to his book. Note Luther's impassioned comments on the nature and existence of the church. It is possible though that some of this quote isn't actually Luther's, but rather the comments of one of his associates, Georg Rörer:

IN PLACE OF A FOREWARD

It is not we who can sustain the church, nor was it our forefathers nor will it be our descendants. It was and is and will be the one who says: "I am with you always, even unto the end of the world." As it says in Heb. 13: "Jesus Christ, heri, et hodie, et in secula." And in Rev. 1: "Which was, and is, and is to come." Verily he is that one, and none other is or can be.

For you and I were not alive thousands of years ago, but the church was preserved without us, and it was done by the one of whom it says, Qui erat, and Heri.

Again, we do not do it in our lifetime, for the church is not upheld by us. For we could not resist the devil in the papacy and the sects and other wicked folk. For us, the church would perish before our eyes, and we with it (as we daily prove), were it not for that other Man who manifestly upholds the church and us. This we can lay hold of and feel, even though we are loth to believe it, and we must needs give ourselves to the one of whom it is said, Qui est, and Hodie.

Again, we can do nothing to sustain the church when we are dead. But he will do it of whom it is said, Qui venturus est and in secula. And what we must needs say of ourselves in this regard is what our forefathers had also to say before us, as the Psalms and other Scriptures testify, and what our descendants will also experience after us, when with us and the whole church they sing in Psalm 124: "If the Lord himself had not been on our side, when men rose up against us," and Psalm 60: "O be thou our help in trouble, for vain is the help of man."

... May Christ our dear God and the Bishop of our souls, which he has bought with his own precious blood, sustain his little flock by the might of his own Word, that it may increase and grow in grace and knowledge and faith in him. May he comfort and strengthen it, that it may be firm and steadfast against all the crafts and assaults of Satan and this wicked world, and may he hear its hearty groaning and anxious waiting and longing for the joyful day of his glorious and blessed coming and appearing. May there be an end of this murderous pricking and biting of the heel, of horrible poisonous serpents. And may there come finally the revelation of the glorious liberty and blessedness of the children of God, for which they wait and hope with patience. To which all those who love the appearing of Christ our life will say from the heart, Amen, Amen.

LUTHER (W.A. 54, 470 and 474 f.).

Documentation

This quote was so interesting, I decided to look it up. Barth provides a reference: "WA 54, 470 and 474 f." That seemed simple enough, but it turned out not to be! It's from this writing: Die angebliche “Vorrede D. M. Luthers, vor seinem Abschied gestellet” zum zweiten Band der Wittenberger Gesamtausgabe seiner deutschen Schriften. 1548. This writing is alleged to be Dr. Martin Luther's Preface, Composed Before His Passing to the second volume of the Wittenberg edition of Luther's German writings. Before he died, Luther did provide prefaces to the first volumes of the Latin and German volumes.  This second preface though is a bit sketchy. It turns out, the Preface was probably put together after Luther's death by Georg Rörer, a close associate of Luther's. Rörer appears to have utilized three documents, two of which have been identified as earlier writings from Luther, while one of his Luther sources is unknown. Of this mystery source, if it's something Luther actually wrote, no one yet (to my knowledge) has been able to locate it. In essence,  Rörer managed to weave three different documents into a Preface to the second volume of the first official collected edition of Luther's writings.

The quote above as cited by Karl Barth is from this hodgepodge posthumous preface. Barth simply cited the cobbled together faux preface as coming from Luther. So when I went to look it up, now I had to figure out if what Barth (and Rörer) cited was from an identified writing from Luther or from the mysterious unidentified source (from someone who may have been Luther). The quote from WA 54:470 appears to be the following (the numbers are lines of the text in WA):

[15] DEnn du vnd ich sind vor tausent jaren nichts gewest, Da dennoch die [16] Kirche on Vns ist erhalten worden, Vnd hats der muessen thun, der da heisst, [17] Qui erat, vnd Heri. So sind wirs jtzt auch nicht bey vnserm Leben, Denn [18] die Kirche wird durch vns nicht erhalten, weil wir dem Teufel im Bapst, [19] Rotten vnd boesen Leuten nicht koennen wehren, Vnd vnser halben die Kirche [20] fur vnsern augen, vnd wir mit jr, muesten zu grunde gehen (wie wir teglich [21] erfaren) wo nicht ein ander Man were, der beide die Kirche vnd vns scheinbarlich [22] erhielte, Das wirs moechten greiffen vnd fuelen, ob wirs nicht wolten [23] gleuben, vnd muessens Den thun lassen, der da heisst, Qui est, vnd Hodie.

[24] EBen so werden wir auch nichts dazu thun, das die Kircke erhalten [25] werde, wenn wir tod sind, Sondern der wirds thun, der da heisst, Qui venturus [26] est, vnd in secula, Vnd was wir in solcher Sachen von vns jtzt sagen, [27] [Bl. ~+ iij] das haben vnser Vorfarn von sich auch sagen muessen, Wie die Psalmen [28] vnd Schrifft zeugen, vnd vnser Nachkomen werdens auch also erfaren, [29] [Ps. 124, 1ff.] das sie werden mit vns vnd der gantzen Kirchen singen den 124. Psalm, Wo [30] der HERR nicht bey vns were, wenn die Menschen sich wider vns setzen, [31] [Ps. 60, 13] Vnd Psal. 60. Schaffe vns beistand in der not, Denn menschen huelffe ist [32] kein nuetze.

The last paragraph of the quote begins at the bottom of page 474 and extends to page 475:

[29] Christus vnser lieber Gott vnd Bischoff vnser Seelen, die er durch sein [30] thewer Blut erkaufft hat, erhalte seine kleine Herde bey seinem heiligen Wort, [31] das sie zuneme vnd wachse in der gnade, erkentnis vnd glauben an jn, Troeste

[Seite 475]

[1] vnd stercke sie auch, das sie fest vnd bestendig bleibe, wider alle list vnd anfechtungen, [2] beide des Satans vnd der argen Welt, vnd erhoere doch schier jr [3] hertzlich seufftzen vnd engstlich harren vnd verlangen nach dem froelichen tage [4] seiner herrlichen seligen Zukunfft vnd Erscheinung, Das des moerdlichen stechens [5] vnd beissens in die Versen, der grimmigen gifftigen Schlangen, doch ein mal [6] ein ende werde, Vnd endlich angehe die offenbarung der herrlichen Freiheit [7] vnd seligkeit der kinder Gottes, der sie hoffen vnd in gedult warten. Dazu [8] spreche ein jglich from hertze, so Christus, vnsers Lebens, erscheinung, liebe hat, [9] Amen, Amen.

It turns out, WA 54:470 cited by Barth does come from one of the identified sources: Luther's Against the Antinomians (1539). The last paragraph though is questionable. This would be the last paragraph cited above in English from Barth's forward. This does not appear to be from Against the Antinomians. Nor does it appear to be from the other identifiable source used by Rörer (Preface to Urbanas Rhegius, Refutation of the New Valentinians and Donatists at Munster, 1535).


Context

I can see there in the distance how the devil is puffing out his cheeks so vigorously that he is turning all red as he prepares to blow and rage. But our Lord Christ from the beginning (even when he was in the flesh) struck these puffed cheeks with his fist, so that they emitted nothing but the devil’s stinking wind. He still does this today and will ever continue to do so. For Christ does not lie when he declares, “I am with you always, to the close of the age” [Matt. 28:20], and when he assures us that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church [Matt. 16:18]. At the same time we are enjoined to remain awake and to do our part in preserving the light. We read, “Be watchful,” for the devil is called a “roaring lion” who “prowls around, seeking some one to devour” [I Pet. 5:8], and this he did not only in the days of the apostles when St. Peter uttered these words; he does so to the end of time. Let us be guided by this. God help us as he helped our forefathers, and as he will help our heirs, to the honor and glory of his divine name forever. For after all, we are not the ones who can preserve the church, nor were our forefathers able to do so. Nor will our successors have this power. No, it was, is, and will be he who says, “I am with you always, to the close of the age.” As it says in Hebrews 13 [:8], “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and forever,” and in Revelation 1 [:8], “He who is and who was and who is to come.” This is his name and no one else’s; nor may anyone else be called by that name.

A thousand years ago you and I were nothing, and yet the church was preserved at that time without us. He who is called “who was” and “yesterday” had to accomplish this. Even during our lifetime we are not the church’s guardians. It is not preserved by us, for we are unable to drive off the devil in the persons of the pope, the sects, and evil men. If it were up to us, the church would perish before our very eyes, and we together with it (as we experience daily). For it is another Man who obviously preserves both the church and us. He does this so plainly that we could touch and feel it, if we did not want to believe it. We must leave this to him who is called “who is” and “today.” Likewise we will contribute nothing toward the preservation of the church after our death. He who is called “who is to come” and “forever” will accomplish it. What we are now saying about ourselves in this respect, our ancestors also had to say, as is borne out by the psalms and the Scriptures. And our descendants will make the same discovery, prompting them to join us and the entire church in singing Psalm 124: “If it had not been the Lord who was on our side, let Israel now say,” etc.

Luther, M. (1999). Luther’s works, vol. 47: The Christian in Society IV. (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald, and H. T. Lehmann, Eds.) (Vol. 47, pp. 117–118). Philadelphia: Fortress Press.

Conclusion
The last paragraph of Barth's Luther quote says,

...May Christ our dear God and the Bishop of our souls, which he has bought with his own precious blood, sustain his little flock by the might of his own Word, that it may increase and grow in grace and knowledge and faith in him. May he comfort and strengthen it, that it may be firm and steadfast against all the crafts and assaults of Satan and this wicked world, and may he hear its hearty groaning and anxious waiting and longing for the joyful day of his glorious and blessed coming and appearing. May there be an end of this murderous pricking and biting of the heel, of horrible poisonous serpents. And may there come finally the revelation of the glorious liberty and blessedness of the children of God, for which they wait and hope with patience. To which all those who love the appearing of Christ our life will say from the heart, Amen, Amen. 

I don't know if Luther wrote this paragraph or not. It's in neither of the identifiable sources Rörer used.  Could it be that Rörer wrote his own ending? Perhaps. Regardless, it just goes to show how tricky citing Luther can be, even when you're not trying to use his words against him like Rome's defenders do.

Rise Up O Men of God !

Rise Up O Men of God

Words originally written by William P. Merrill, 1911.  (* see comments at the end)

Music by Phil Keaggy

Rise up O men of God, 
Have done with lesser things. 
Give heart and soul and mind and strength, 
To serve the King of Kings, 
To serve the King of Kings. 

Rise up O men of God, 
His Kingdom tarries long, 
Bring in the day of brotherhood, 
And end the night of wrong, 
And end the night of wrong. 

Rise up O men of God, 
The Church for you doth wait. 
Send forth to serve the needs of men 
In Christ our strength is great, 
In Christ our strength is great. 

Lift high the Cross of Christ, 
Tread where His feet have trod, 
As brothers of the Son of Man, 
Rise up O men of God, 
Rise up O men of God. 

Rise up O men of God, 
Have done with lesser things. 
Give heart and soul and mind and strength, 
To serve the King of Kings, 
To serve the King of Kings.

Comments:
I honestly don't know the background of this hymn, but it appears to have written at a time (right before World War 1) when Liberal Christianity was making headways and a liberal post-millennialism and "bringing in the kingdom" was an influential force in western culture.  Hence, the phrases about "His Kingdom tarries long" and "bring in the day of brotherhood" and "the church . . . sent forth to serve the needs of men".  If the author's intended meaning of those phrases were some kind of liberal "bring in the kingdom" through good works, social gospel, and political action, then I disagree with that of course; and repudiate that message.  I did a minimum amount of searching on the internet, and it does seem like the author was a liberal theologian and pastor and was part of a pacifist peace movement.  Beyond that, I don't know how liberal or orthodox he was.  

But I think that the phrases and words by themselves can also have a more Evangelical Biblical meaning, by seeking to glorify God by abiding in the true vine, Jesus Christ (John 15:1-16); walking with the Lord; by the preaching of the Biblical gospel and for men to stand up and be committed and love their wives and children and be committed in a local, Biblical church; reach out to neighbor; be men of prayer and engage our culture and support or go in missions; then that is the meaning and spirit with which I post this. 

And it is really good music also!  

Prayer:  (Adapted from Matthew 6:9-13)
"Father in heaven, Your name is already Holy; You are already Holy!
May Your name be treated as holy in my heart and life and in Your people's hearts and lives in the Biblical churches;  May Your kingdom come and be spread on this earth through the gospel being preached and lived out; and may Your moral will be done, as it is done in heaven . . . May Your Word spread and run rapidly and be honored (see 2 Thess. 3:1-3) We need Your grace and power and a fresh filling of Your Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18; Galatians 5:13-25)  Help us guard our hearts against sin, pride, lust, jealousy, anger, selfishness; Let us not into temptation; deliver us from evil; for Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory, forever, in the name and authority of Jesus Christ, Your only Son, Amen! "