Monday, April 30, 2007

An ancient voice for the day #12

Chrysostom (349-407):

"In the case of the soul, on the other hand, none of these things is necessary, unless, just as you daily spend money to give nourishment to the body, you are likewise determined not to neglect the soul and let it die of hunger but to provide it with proper nourishment from the reading of Scripture and the support of spiritual advice: “Not on bread alone does man live,” Scripture says, remember, 'but on every word coming from the mouth of God.' "

Source: FC, Vol. 82, Homilies on Genesis 18-45, Homily 21.22 (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 1990), p. 66.


For an excellent compilation of quotes of the Church fathers teaching on the primacy, sufficiency and ultimate authority of Scripture, get a copy of Holy Scripture:The Ground and Pillar of Our Faith Vol III- The Writings of the Church Fathers Affirming the Reformation Principle of Sola Scriptura.

Saturday, April 28, 2007

Postcards From Mordor


I always try to keep up with my few fans - those that drop me little helpful reviews of something I've written. Here are some recent goodies:
Some posts over on the Catholic Answers boards are wonderfully expressive, found here, and here. These are fairly entertaining; particularly since the person making the comments goes by the cyber-name “Wisdom”.

Roman Catholic cyber-peace-warrior has presented more of his kind comments and thankfulness for my writing found here. Also, the comments section continues along the same friendly, heartwarming path toward ecumenical unity. The kindness expressed by those with the full truth always makes me see how having an infallible church really can change a heart.

Finally, Jonathan Prejean has presented this enlightening entry. Thank you Jonathan for your philosophical musings and careful analysis.

Thursday, April 26, 2007

The Foggy Facts


James is up to his old tricks again: I am an idiot, an incompetent stooge, whereas he is a sublime model of lay apologetics and does only work of the highest sublime levels of scholarship.” – A Catholic Apologist

No, I've simply been asking questions this Roman Catholic apologist doesn't want to answer. If I were to go to print making historical claims, I would make sure that I actually did read and understand the material I presented. This guy was busy in the blog-back comments of another post, and would not answer a most simple question, if he had (or had not) actually read the context of some words from Bullinger he cited in one of his books.

It’s one thing to put up a web page of information one has not read, it’s quite another to have books published and expect the general public to consider one an authority on the Reformers. I’m hopeful that the Bullinger citation was a simple oversight on this guy's part. I’m hopeful he is not going to print with this same type of research presented in his web pages, obfuscating any who desire to check his facts. More importantly, if he wants to be considered a reliable author, he needs to invest the time in doing ad fontes research.
The following is a snippet from my response to this Catholic apologist on Luther’s view of Mary, and demonstrates some of the reasons discussions with him can be difficult when one takes the time to work through the material he presents.

He was dismayed that I did not provide a specific utterance number from Luther’s Table Talk. Apparently, he is unaware that multiple versions of the Table Talk exist (for instance, a popular on-line version is different in content to the version contained in Luther’s Works). Hence, one can see why a uniform approach to quoting Luther is the most pragmatic approach. Luther’s Works English Edition proves to be the most cogent approach. One can conclude after perusing his many comments on Luther from his web site, that he is serious about studying Luther. My citing of volume and page in Luther’s works was intended to make the job of checking references easier. Secondary sources quoting Luther were a last resort, as were any references to the Weimar edition. I also attempted to use other easily available primary references: popular collections of sermons, and the helpful compilation, What Luther says.

He takes a different approach in his Luther research. In version #3 of his response he references the German Weimar edition 33 times (he cites the English Luther’s Works only 4 times). In order to help out any who cannot read German, he lets the reader know that they can get a “cross-referencing of Luther's German works and English translations,…Heinrich J. Vogel, Cross Reference and Index to the Contents of Luther's Works.” Unfortunately, this book is out of print and is not normally available in college libraries. Used copies are not cheap either. One wonders why he would have a copy of Vogel’s reference, and yet not provide the cross- references for the following citations he provided:

WA 9, 74; WA 10; 46, 136; WA, 10, III, 268; WA 10/3:269.12-13; WA 17, II, 287-289; WA, 17-II, 288; WA 17,409; WA 17/2:288.17-34; WA, 30, II, 351; WA 36,143; WA 37,231; WA 39, II, 107; WA 39/2,.92-121; WA 39/2:107.8-13; WA 40/3:680.31-32;WA 52, 39; WA 52:681.27-31;WA 52, 681; WA 53:640.18-22;WA 4, 693; 10 (3), 331; 46, 136; 47, 860; WA 54,207.

In fairness to him, he did provide 4 cross references to the English edition in his response. Perhaps he did not have the time to provide the others. Interestingly, some of his WA quotes did not make sense. Some references seemed to note which edition of WA (for instance, “2”), while others did not. Are we to assume the earlier edition of WA is meant? There was a lack of uniformity also: sometimes he used Roman numerals, others times he did not. At one point he offered, “WA 4, 693; 10 (3), 331; 46, 136; 47, 860.” These seem more like bingo numbers than references. I still don’t know what “10 (3)” refers to. It would be helpful to at least pick one way of citing WA and sticking with it. Perhaps I might not be able to check WA, but maybe another interested reader will.

I ask any to compare my footnotes with any of this guy's Luther pages. As an example, please see his footnotes for his on-line Paper “Martin Luther: Beyond Historical Myth to Fact.” Primary references to Luther are mostly to Luther’s Works in German. Similarly, A large amount of his Luther references are given merely as titles of a particular treatise, with the readers’ job being the arduous task of tracking down a volume that contains said treatise. Many treatises are still not available in English (Like the frequently quoted sermon he utilizes, “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527), and many have variations in the specific names of his treatises, making them even harder to track down.

He also employs a high volume of Luther citations from secondary sources. That’s fine, but many of the books he cited are no longer in print. Thus, the readers’ task of checking his citations is not an easy road. This leads to only two conclusions: Either he is fluent in German or he does not have the most basic tool for Luther studies: the English edition of Luther’s Works, so he relies on secondary sources or web sites that have posted samplings of Luther’s treatises. He thus complicates the task of any who would check his references or contexts.

His response provided many references that are virtually impossible to track down. One wonders why these sources were offered. Not only are they in different languages, the majority are long out of print:

“Was Luther a Devotee of Mary?" Marian Studies, 21, 1970; Marian Studies 18 (1967);"Die Gottesmutter im Glauben und Beten der Jahrhunderte," Hochkirche 13 [1931], Uber die Selige Jungfrau, May 18, 1558;De origine erroris, 16, written in 1568; (Acts of the Council in March 1526 and March 1530; Die Bekenntnisschriften der evangelisch-lutherischen Kirche, Gottingen: Vandenhoeck und Ruprecht, 1952; "Weimarer Ausgabe / 1883 ff. Weimar edition of Luther's works; Maria bei Luther (Gutersloh: Bertelsmann Verlag, 1954); K. Algermissen, "Mariologie und Marienverehrung der Reformatoren," Theologie und Glaube, XLIX (1959); Le Drame de Martin Luther," Decouverte se l'oecumenisme (Paris: Desclee de Brouwer, 1961);Am tage der Empfengknus Marie der mutter Gottes. Luk. 11; from Martini Lutheri Postillae. In die Conceptionis Mariae Matris Dei, . Argentorati: apud Georgium Ulricum Adlanum, anno xxx); "On the Schem Hamphoras and the Genealogy of Christ (Vom Schem Hamphoras und vom Geschlecht Christi), 1543; Walter Tappolet and Albert Ebneter (eds.), Das Marienlob der Reformatoren (Tubingen: Katzmann, 1962), . Hans Dufel, Luthers Stellung zur Marienverehrung ( . . . 1968) Festpostille -- two 1527 editions; Sermon at the First Vespers of the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary; House Sermon for Christmas (1533) ; Vom Schem Hamporas und vom Geschlecht Christi [On the Schem Hamphoras and the Genealogy of Christ] (1543) -- WA 53,640; Wider das Papstum zu Rom (1545); WA 54,207”

In contrast, I have made the readers’ task of locating a context for Luther’s words quite easy; all you need is access to Luther’s Works, which are available in many college libraries, and some public libraries. Used volumes can still be purchased, even singularly (individual volumes can be as cheap as $15-25). Therefore, I see no reason to redo all the footnotes.

He got himself into a somewhat precarious situation on the CARM bulletin boards in November 2002 with his methods of quoting Luther. He posted this quote:

Inasmuch as I know for certain that I am right, I will be judge above you and above all the angels, as St. Paul says, that whoever does not accept my doctrine cannot be saved. For it is the doctrine of God, and not my doctrine; therefore my judgment also is God's and not mine . . . It would be better that all bishops were murdered, and all abbeys and cloisters razed to the ground, than that one soul should perish . . . If they will not listen to God's Word . . . what can more justly befall them than a violent upheaval which shall root them out of the earth? And we would smile did it happen. All who contribute body, goods . . that the rule of the bishops may be destroyed are God's dear children and true Christians."

He gave the reference as simply “Martin Luther, Against the Falsely So-Called Spiritual Estate of the Pope and Bishops, July 1522.” After searching the entire treatise, I could not find this quote. A Lutheran friend joined the discussion and was able to ascertain that the reason I could not locate the quote was because it was extracted in bits from different spots spanning 31 pages. He responded that he had gotten the quotes from secondary sources (Durant and Janssen), and that he trusted their scholarship. This is not the place to quibble over whatever point he was trying to make. I offer this example merely to show that this Catholic apologist complicates the task of any who checks his Luther references.

Tuesday, April 24, 2007

Seeing the Truth on the Catholic Answers Forums on Cardinal Ximenes


I stopped by the Catholic Answers boards to present the facts about Cardinal Ximenes and the Preface to the Polyglott Biblia complutensis. A few weeks back, one of the Catholic Answers folks said:

“I hate to admit this but I think Webster’s assertions are wrong. I found a book about Cardinal Ximenes, Pope Leo X and the Complutensian Polygot. It was on Questia com. From what I read there is no preface condemning the Apocrypha books. What Pope Leo does condemn are pseudo-Apocrypha books. But who really knows... perhaps the Vatican isn't telling the truth (maybe they fudged the real documents). After all the Vatican has all of these secret documents (I tried to check some of them out on the Vatican web-site) that the average person isn't permitted to read.”

I posted the following response from William Webster’s recent article:

The second issue I want to address is the charge that I am misrepresenting the facts regarding the Preface to the Polyglott Biblia complutensis. If you recall this was the Bible that was published by Cardinal Ximenes in Spain in the early 16th century. It was published in 1520 with the sanction of pope Leo X. I had stated that the Preface of that work included comments that excluded the apocrypha from the canon. Apparently, some have made comments in a public forum suggesting that I am wrong about the Preface. But such accusations are completely without merit as anyone who might take the time to investigate the contents of the work in question would quickly discover. The Biblia complutensis is a 6-volume work and the following is its bibliographical information: Biblia complutensis (Rome: Gregorian University Polyglott Press, 1983-1984), Edition Facsimileed.
There is a Preface to this work titled "Prologus ad lectorem", or, "Preface to the reader". In Preface 3b it states:
Atvero libri extra canonem quos Ecclesia potius ad aedificationem populi quam ad autoritatem ecclesiasticorum dogmatum confirmandam recipit, Graecam tamen habent scripturam, sed cum duplici latina interpretatione, altera beati Hieronymi, altera interlineari de verbo ad verbum, eo modo quo in caeteris.
English translation:
As for the books outside the Canon, which the Church admits/receives more for the edification of the people than for the purpose of confirming the doctrines of the Church, they are in Greek, but with two Latin translations, one by blessed Jerome, the other and interlinear word for word, as elsewhere.
The books referred to that were listed as outside the canon were the books of the apocrypha. The Preface gives a widely used quote from the Middle Ages which is derived from Jerome that the apocryphal books, while not included in the canon, were sanctioned to be read in the Churches for the purposes of edification. The Catholic Encyclopedia confirms this:
"In his famous 'Prologus Galeatus', or Preface to his translation of Samuel and Kings, he (Jerome) declares that everything not Hebrew should be classed with the apocrypha, and explicitly says that Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Tobias,and Judith are not in the Canon. These books, he adds, are read in the churches for the edification of the people, and not for the confirmation of revealed doctrine" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Canon of the Old Testament)."
I posted the information about Cardinal Ximenes and the Preface to the Polyglott Biblia complutensis because of the claims made that Webster was wrong, as well as these other comments found here, and here. Then, someone else said,"We have raised this issue a few times on this thread that Webster sometimes does not use primary source material and many times resorts to personal opinion rather than exact quotes from primary sources."

Now, don’t expect the Catholic Answers crowd to be apologizing any time soon. Here’s what came back:

“You know its almost hilarious how much time we spend responding the magisterium of WIlliam Webster around here.”

“Webster is not a primary source people he is a hack apologist who had some controversial interpretations and findings in the past.”

This is a good lesson for the Catholic Answers crowd to learn before they accuse people of not telling the truth, or being a "hack apologist". The clarified information has been presented. Which of them will step forward and apologize?

Monday, April 23, 2007

An ancient voice for the day #11

Chrysostom (349-407):

"This is what a lot of people are inclined to say when we exhort them to take pains over a virtuous life or show enthusiasm for the reading of Scripture. This is not for me, the person says: I haven’t left the world, have I? I haven’t become a monk, have I? What are you saying, human being that you are? Are you leaving it to them alone to find satisfaction before God? He wants everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, and he wishes no one to neglect virtue. Listen, after all, to what he has to say by means of the inspired author: “I desire not the sinner’s death as much as his conversion and life.” No hindrance came to the good man, did it, from intercourse with his wife or family cares?

(20) Accordingly, I beseech you, let us not deceive ourselves, but the more we are embroiled in these cares, so much the more should we take the remedies available in the reading of the Holy Scriptures. . . . Hence, I beseech you, let us not approach the contents of Sacred Scripture idly, but read them with attention so as to gain benefit from them and at least at this late hour be in a position to follow the way of virtue as God would have us do."

Source: FC, Vol. 82, Homilies on Genesis 18-45, Homily 21.19-20 (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 1990), pp. 64-65.


For an excellent compilation of quotes of the Church fathers teaching on the primacy, sufficiency and ultimate authority of Scripture, get a copy of Holy Scripture:The Ground and Pillar of Our Faith Vol III- The Writings of the Church Fathers Affirming the Reformation Principle of Sola Scriptura.

Friday, April 20, 2007

For those of you interested in Catholic/Protestant dialog, check out this blogback discussion from my post An ancient voice for the day #9 .

Wednesday, April 18, 2007

Sunday, April 15, 2007

Church Fathers That Denied The Apocrypha Did Not Deny The Apocrypha


Why a picture of the barren landscape of Mars? Look close and you’ll see little arrows pointing to a rock. This is the famous skull face on Mars, which is really.... only a rock. This picture accurately sums up a link I was sent to an article on the church fathers and the apocrypha by a zealous defender of Rome, a person called “Matt1618”:

Did Some Church Fathers Reject the Deuterocanonicals as Scripture?

There’s nothing of substance in this link. It’s just like that skull face on Mars. One can write countless pages speculating about the skull face, but it really is an exercise in futility. It's a rock. That’s just like the link.

It’s a tough read, but the basic thrust of the argument is the early church fathers that spoke against the canonicity of the apocrypha did not in fact deny these books were canonical scripture. What they really meant was the apocrypha should not be used in the liturgy of a particular church. The writer of this link claims this argument is the work of Mark Bonocore (now with Catholic Legate). He quotes an e-mail he received from Mark back in 2001. I took about a half hour to search around to see if Mr. Bonocore wrote about this. I couldn’t find anything other than the link above, and also a few links from the same website quoting the same e-mail.

I don’t recall hearing this argument before. Bonocore is quoted as saying,

“…When some fathers speak of a particular book as "non-canonical," they do not necessarily mean that it is not inspired or authoritative. Rather, in many cases, they merely mean that it is not used in the Liturgy of their particular city-church ...thus it is a "hidden book" ("apocrypha"), which could be read privately for edification but not in the Liturgy itself (the public worship of the Church --"Lex orendi, lex credendi").”

If you read through the link, you will note that Mark’s letter appears to be edited. Now, this isn’t necessarily unscrupulous, but I find it interesting that no early church fathers are mentioned in Mark’s letter, but the author of this link goes on to apply Mark’s historical interpretive principle to 10 early church fathers. He seeks to prove,

“Even if one does not accept this theory, one will see that the Fathers unanimously treated these books in practice as Scripture. That is what I will show in this study. Whether one accepts the theory that the Fathers are inconsistent in practice and theory, or one says that because one says a book is not 'canonical' does not deny its inspiration, and it is still Scripture, the fact is that the Fathers, even those who allegedly 'reject' these books, unanimously refer to these books as Scripture.”

Now, this is all a bit confusing. First, the assertion by Bonocore is made about the apocryphal books actually being canonical but not to be used in the liturgy, then the argument shifts to proving that the early church fathers were perhaps inconsistent in theory, but quoted from them, thus treating them as scripture.
Well, big deal. This principle of quoting from an apocryphal book does not mean that a particular church father necessarily thought a book was canonical. Talk about wasting one’s time writing to prove nothing, which is what “Matt1618” does. The ironic part of the argument is I could produce a number of quotes from Luther positively quoting from the apocrypha (he even preached from apocryphal passages occasionally), yet, I know of no one who would claim Luther treated the apocrypha as canonical scripture.

Time allowing, I’d like to examine some of the points made in Matt1618’s link.

Thursday, April 12, 2007

A Roman Catholic Question For Calvinists


Here's a question from the blog Sancta Mater Ecclesia worth pondering:

If faith is a gift from God, then how can the Protestant Christian's belief in the Scriptures be a fallible one?


The Calvinist paradigm holds faith is a gift from God. God opens the heart of the dead sinner, making him spiritually alive. He becomes enabled to savingly trust the words of God as reliable and certain.

This is one of the best epistomological questions i've heard in a long time. You are invited to weigh in.

Wednesday, April 11, 2007

Leaving a Comment on this Blog: Helpful Hints


Thanks for stopping by Beggars All: Reformation and Apologetics. If something written has inspired or provoked you, the comment section is usually open. Many posts from long ago are open for response.

Will My Comment Be Edited or Deleted?  The Blogger platform does not allow a moderator to edit comments. You have to say something foul or insulting to have your comment deleted. If you've made a comment completely unrelated to the entry, it may not be published. 


Your comment may not appear immediately on this blog. I have trouble with trolls and stalkers from time to time, so comment moderation is now turned on.



Tuesday, April 10, 2007

Team Apologian


Here are my last few entries for Team Apologian:

Silence and the Problem of Catholic Canon Certainty- A look at the implications of Catholic apologist Gary Michuta's view that the debated book of Esdras was passed over in silence by the Council of Trent. (4/9/07)

Gary Michuta Says: Read My Book- Catholic Apologist Gary Michuta joins the Envoy bunker and posts a response to William Webster on Esdras. (4/4/07)

Is William Webster Telling The Truth?- A look at the charge William Webster was lying about the edition of the Bible called the Biblia Complutensia which contains a statement from Ximenes, Archbishop of Toledo, against the canonicity of the apocrypha. (4/3/07)

Six Points On Luther's "Epistle of Straw"- Almost five hundred years after the fact, Roman Catholics still scrutinize Martin Luther. One the most popular quotations from Luther is the infamous "epistle of straw" remark, directed at the canonicity of the book of James. It really is amazing how frequently this citation appears. It is usually brought forth as proof one must believe an infallible church authored an infallible list of infallible books. Without this, one subjectively decides which books are canonical, like Martin Luther supposedly did in the sixteenth century.If you find yourself in dialog facing this quote, there are a few facts and arguments you should know. (4/3/07)

Go Ahead, Speak Your Mind on Envoy, Just Don't Link to aomin.org - I got booted off the Envoy boards for posting a link to aomin.org. (3/28/07)

And They All Lived Happily Ever After? - Robert Sungenis and the Catholic apologetic bond of unity. (3/26/07)


Also noteworthy:

Jeff Downs:
Augustine, Schaeffer, Van Til (4/7/07)
Revelation and Reason (3/30/07)
Counterfeit Christianity: The Basics (3/26/07)

Monday, April 09, 2007

An ancient voice for the day #10

Chrysostom (349-407):

"Besides, even if any should be so poor, it is in their power, by means of the continual reading of the holy Scriptures which takes place here, to be ignorant of nothing contained in them."

Source: . NPNF1: Vol. XIV, Homilies on the Gospel according to St. John, Homily 11.1.


For an excellent compilation of quotes of the Church fathers teaching on the primacy, sufficiency and ultimate authority of Scripture, get a copy of Holy Scripture:The Ground and Pillar of Our Faith Vol III- The Writings of the Church Fathers Affirming the Reformation Principle of Sola Scriptura.

Sunday, April 08, 2007

An ancient voice for the day #9

Chrysostom (349-407):

"Tarry not, I entreat, for another to teach thee; thou hast the oracles of God. No man teacheth thee as they; for he indeed oft grudgeth much for vainglory’s sake and envy. Hearken, I entreat you, all ye that are careful for this life, and procure books that will be medicines for the soul. If ye will not any other, yet get you at least the New Testament, the Apostolic Epistles, the Acts, the Gospels, for your constant teachers. If grief befall thee, dive into them as into a chest of medicines; take thence comfort of thy trouble, be it loss, or death, or bereavement of relations; or rather dive not into them merely, but take them wholly to thee; keep them in thy mind.
This is the cause of all evils, the not knowing the Scriptures. We go into battle without arms, and how ought we to come off safe? Well contented should we be if we can be safe with them, let alone without them."


Source: NPNF1: Vol. XIII, Homilies on the Epistle of St. Paul to the Colossians, Homily 9.


For an excellent compilation of quotes of the Church fathers teaching on the primacy, sufficiency and ultimate authority of Scripture, get a copy of Holy Scripture:The Ground and Pillar of Our Faith Vol III- The Writings of the Church Fathers Affirming the Reformation Principle of Sola Scriptura.

Luther’s Preface To Parts of Esther, 1534

In making a point about the freedom of the will, Erasmus chose to quote from the apocryphal book of Ecclesiasticus. He takes the time to explain why this book should be considered as authoritative:
“I do not think anyone will object against the authority of this work that it was not, as Jerome points out, regarded as canonical by the Hebrews, since the Church of Christ has received it by common consent into its canon; nor do I see any reason why the Hebrews felt they must exclude the book from theirs, seeing they accepted the Proverbs of Solomon and the Love Song. As to the fact that they did not receive into their canon the last two books of Esdras, the story in Daniel about Susanna and Bel the dragon, Judith, Esther, and several others, but reckoned them among the hagiographa, anyone who reads those books carefully can easily see what their reasons were. But in this work there is nothing of that kind to disturb the reader.”
Luther responded:
“The first is that from Ecclesiasticus 15[:14–17]: “God made man from the beginning, and left him in the hand of his own counsel. He added his commandments and precepts. If thou wilt observe the commandments and keep acceptable fidelity forever, they shall preserve thee. He hath set water and fire before thee; stretch forth thine hand for which thou wilt. Before man is life and death, good and evil; that which he shall choose shall be given him.”  Although I could rightly reject this book, for the time being I accept it so as not to waste time by getting involved in a dispute about the books received in the Hebrew canon. For you poke more than a little sarcastic fun at this when you compare Proverbs and The Song of Solomon (which with a sneering innuendo you call the “Love Song”) with the two books of Esdras, Judith, the story of Susanna and the Dragon, and Esther (which despite their inclusion of it in the canon deserves more than all the rest in my judgment to be regarded as noncanonical) [LW 33:110].
It is an interesting fact though that Luther translated and placed the book of Esther with the canonical books of the Old Testament. The editors of Luther’s Works state,
“Luther’s ordering of the apocryphal books is his own. It does not follow the sequence in which they appeared either in the Vulgate or in the Septuagint where they were interspersed among the canonical books in positions which varied with the different manuscripts. In the older German Bibles, Judith had followed Tobit and preceded Esther; Wisdom had followed Song of Solomon and preceded Ecclesiasticus.”
Yet, Luther abandoned the ordering of the Vulgate, the Septuagint, and the older German Bibles. He placed the apocryphal books at the end of his Old Testament translation, clearly separating them from those Old Testament books he considered canonical. Esther was included with the canonical books.

To make the situation even more interesting, he took the additions to Esther, which had originally been pointed out by Jerome, and placed them with the apocryphal books. The editors of Luther’s Works say, “Six additions to the book of Esther, comprising 107 verses not in the Hebrew text, were inserted into the text in the Greek Version, added on at the end in the Vulgate.” Through the centuries, Jerome’s clear delineation between the canonical and non-canonical parts of Esther was often ignored or left out in subsequent copies of the Vulgate, treating the book in its longer form as entirely canonical.

Even as early as 1521, Luther at times makes a distinction between the parts of Esther: “Queen Esther wore a precious crown upon her head, yet she said it seemed but a filthy rag in her eyes, Esther 14:16 (Apocryphal)” [LW 21:316]. Yet elsewhere from the same time period, Luther quotes from both sections of Esther and makes no such distinction (See LW 30:89, a writing from 1522).

Luther did not write a preface for the canonical Esther. In 1534 though, Luther did write a preface for the non-canonical part:
Preface to Parts of Esther and Daniel 1534
Here follow several pieces which we did not wish to translate [and include] in the prophet Daniel and in the book of Esther. We have uprooted such cornflowers (because they do not appear in the Hebrew versions of Daniel and Esther).  And yet, to keep them from perishing, we have put them here in a kind of special little spice garden or flower bed since much that is good, especially the hymn of praise, Benedicite,  is to be found in them. But the texts of Susanna, and of Bel, Habakkuk,  and the Dragon, seem like beautiful religious fictions, such as Judith and Tobit,  for their names indicate as much. For example, Susanna means a rose,  that is, a nice pious land and folk, or a group of poor people among the thorns; Daniel means a judge,  and so on. Be the story as it may, it can all be easily interpreted in terms of the state, the home, or the devout company of the faithful. [LW 35:353]

Saturday, April 07, 2007

The Michuta Canon Dilemma


If you’ve been following the aomin blog, you already know Catholic apologist Gary Michuta has a new book coming out this month: Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger. There has been some interaction between Michuta, James White, and William Webster over the canon declaration of Hippo, Carthage, and Trent. Did the early councils of Hippo and Carthage deem a book canonical that Trent later rejected as canonical? It’s a little tricky to work through. I posted on this some months ago. Recently, William Webster posted on it as well:

Bill Webster Responds to Gary Michuta Part I
Bill Webster Responds to Gary Michuta, Part III

Without restating all the argumentation, Michuta argues Trent decided to “pass over in silence” on the question of the particular book of Esdras under dispute. Michuta says:

“Both White and Webster take the position that the absence of a book called Esdras in the Council of Trent’s definition of the canon constitutes, not mere silence on the issue, but a clear and explicit rejection of the book “without the slightest ambiguity.” This is a big deal for them because, if it is true, then a case could be made that Trent contradicted the Councils of Carthage and Hippo which they understand to have explicitly included Esdras (no doubt without the slightest possible ambiguity there either). My position is that, whatever we want to make of the status of Esdras, the question of a contradiction between Trent and Carthage cannot arise because the bishops at Trent explicitly avoided answering the question. White and Webster seem to be under the impression that this idea is my own "novel" interpretation of the decree of the Fourth Session. It is nothing of the kind.”

And also:

“Let me be perfectly clear. My assertion that the Council of Trent passed over the question of the canonicity of Esdras in silence is not a matter of my own or anyone else’s interpretation of the decree. It is a historical fact.”

I think Gary Michuta may have cornered himself by his own argumentation. While he solved one problem, he created another.

Let’s grant Michuta’s assertion that Trent “passed over in silence” on the book of Esdras in question. This means in the Roman system, as interpreted by Michuta, the possibility exists that the book in question is canonical, but not in the canon. Therefore, it is possible that the Bible is missing a book, in which case, Roman Catholics cannot be certain they have an infallible list of all the infallible books. In which case, their arguments stating they have canon certainty crumbles. It would also mean, the canon is still open. Michuta notes that 42 people at Trent voted to pass over the book in silence. If Michuta is correct on his interpretation of Trent, these 42 people solved the problem of the contradiction between Hippo, Carthage, and Trent, but created the problem of an unclosed canon, and thrust Catholics into uncertainty.

Michuta notes 3 people at Trent voted to reject the book of Esdras in question. These three people uphold Catholic argumentation on Canon certainty: yes, the book of Esdras in question is not canonical. The canon is closed. Catholics have a complete infallible list of infallible books. In this answer, the earlier councils of Hippo and Carthage deemed Esdras canonical, but these three men at Trent say it’s not. In other words, if these men were followed, it would prove councils are not infallible. The councils contradicted themselves.

Go ahead, argue Trent “passed over in silence”. It proves once and for all Catholic arguments for canon certainty are empty. The argument shows clearly that sophistry is at work. The argument is like trying to scotch tape together a structure that needs to be demolished. The epistemological foundation of Roman Catholicism is top heavy from its weak foundation, one that is built on sand.

Thursday, April 05, 2007

Checking The Facts


I’ve been a consistent voice of complaining against The Facts About Luther by Father Patrick O’Hare. In some instances, those who I encounter quoting this book will listen to reason and cease quoting this book. Others will drop the conversation and move on. Recently, I received an e-mail which said in part:

To James Swan:
I'm a devout, Orthodox Catholic heavily into apologetics. I had read
O'Hare's "The Facts About Luther" and was determined to let Protestants know the truth about their great "hero". But I couldn't just recite incriminating quotes from a book by a Catholic; I wanted to take Luther's words from his very own writings, so I began checking O'Hare's sources. I was very disappointed to find that he DOES take words out of context, shuffles them around a bit or changes them outright all for the purpose of making Luther say something he never said, or mean something he never meant.

Indeed! I wanted to mention a thread just started at Catholic Answers about Luther. O'Hare's Facts About Luther hasn't been mentioned yet, but give this thread a little more time, and it probably will.
In regard to fairness, Note these words from Father O’Hare:
Catholics naturally feel indignant at the vilification, abuse and misrepresentation to which their ancient and worldwide religion is constantly subjected, but they are charitable and lenient in their judgment towards all who wage war against them. They are considerate with their opponents and persecutors because they realize that these are victims of a long-standing and inherited prejudice, intensified by a lack of knowledge of what the Catholic Church really upholds and teaches. Even as the Church's Founder prayed the Heavenly Father to forgive those who nailed Him to the Cross because they knew not what they did, so do His followers, with malice to none but with charity to all, pray for those who oppose the spread of the Kingdom of God on earth because they do not realize to the full that, in despising the Church, they despise Him who founded her to be the light of the world. Most of the Church's enemies are to be greatly pitied, for they have never been taught the significant lesson that the man-made system of religion they hold or adhere to is false, an offense and an apostasy in the eyes of God, who despises heresy and who warned His followers to be on guard against every teacher not commissioned by Him to announce divine truth. Of all this they are unaware. They know nothing of the Church they malign, abuse and vilify. They are ignorant of her history, of her organization, of her constitution, of her teaching, of her mission and her place in the world. They know her not, and many of them, otherwise honest but nurtured in opposition, are led to hate what with divine light they would come to admire, love and embrace." [Source: Facts About Luther, 11-12]
What an irony! The Facts About Luther is actually a complete vilification. One is left amazed at the earlier claims of fairness and truth the book makes when contrasted with O’Hare’s actual tone and obvious strong hostility that proceeds and develops quickly. One reads page after page of a man controlled by Satan destroying all that he touches:
Luther is:

The “pretended Reformer,” with “depraved manners and utterances,” “perversity of principle coupled with falsity of teaching…” (p. 310)

“That he was a deformer and not a reformer is the honest verdict of all who are not blind partisans and who know the man at close vision for what he was and for what he stood to sponsor.” (p. 310)

Luther reasons “out of the depths of his depraved mind…” (p. 311)

“Why, then call Luther a reformer- one who would not in our times be regarded fit to be entrusted with police duty in the worst slums of our cities, much less to be made the presiding officer of a vice purity committee?” (p. 312)

“The serpent’s rattle made itself distinctly heard in his unholy utterances…” (p. 312)

“As a matter of fact, he was openly blamed for his well-known and imprudent intimacy with Katherine Von Bora before his marriage…”(p. 313)

[Directed at Luther]:“Out upon your morality and religion; out upon your obstinacy and blindness! How have you sunk from the pinnacle of perfection and true wisdom to the depths of depravity and abominable error, dragging down countless numbers with you!” (p. 313)

“That he was consumed by the fires of fleshly lust he admits himself.” (p. 314)

“Did the corruption of his mind, as is plainly evidenced in his speech, induce to laxity of behavior and lead him to exemplify his teachings in grave moral delinquencies? Corrupt teaching begets corrupt action, and hence it is difficult to believe that anyone holding such principles and ‘consumed by the fires of his unbridled flesh’ could wholly escape in his own case the exemplification of his unhallowed pronouncements.” (p. 316)

[O’Hare insinuates that Luther suffered from syphilis and suggests]: “On this delicate matter anyone may, if further information be desired, read Grisar, Vol. II pp. 162-164, where all the details of the question are carefully and learnedly discussed.” (p. 317)

“…[T]o deify indecency, decry celibacy and virginity and dishonor the married state, was Luther’s satanic desire and diabolical purpose.” (p. 318)

“The way in which this ‘glorious evangelist’ explains his beastly theories in his course Latin and in his still coarser German is such that it cannot be given here, ‘so full is it,’ …’not only of indelicacy but of gross filthiness.’” (p. 319)

“The thoughts that filled his depraved mind and reflected on the greater part of mankind led him on, after his excommunication, to strive with diabolical energy to eradicate from the people’s hearts the love for and belief in the possibility of chastity outside of wedlock.” (p. 322)

“The evidences of his depravity are so overwhelming and convincing that they are forced to the conclusion that this shameless advocate of brazen prostitution could not be and was not a ‘messenger of the all Holy God.’” (p. 327)

“If a Catholic, especially a Jesuit, had ever played fast and loose with the truth as Luther did, what an outcry, and justly so, would be raised!” (p. 334)

“Katherine Von Bora was only his companion in sin, and the children brought into the world through the unholy alliance were illegitimate children.” (p. 340)

“His wild pronouncements wrecked Germany, wrecked her intellectually, morally, and politically. The havoc wrought directly or indirectly by him is almost without example in history.” p. (7)

“…[I]t behooves every serious man to know this charlatan for what he was and to learn that he has absolutely no claim to any consideration as a heaven-commissioned agent, as even an ordinary ‘reformer’ or ‘spiritual leader,’ or as in any respect a man above and ahead of the frailties of his age.” (p. 18)

After putting forth the myth that Luther’s father was a murderer, O’Hare insinuates [through a quotation] that “Martin was a veritable chip of the hard old block.” (p. 27)

Saturday, March 31, 2007

Using Psychohistory on Luther


One thing about trying to figure out Martin Luther, Roman Catholics can certainly be creative:

“Luther was brutually[sic] beaten as a child and in his own words admits that he entered the monastery to save his life. He was indeed a brilliant Biblical scholar. However, because of his brilliance, he was elevated quickly through the ranks of the Church.When the Wittenburg[sic] plague happened, I believe his old childhood demons returned to torment him. He suffered terribly from scrupulosity[sic]: whipping himself, starving himself, depriving himself of sleep, and rejecting the comfort of his monastic community.His interchanges with Eck bore the hallmarks of PTSD. Self-reliance, suspicion (or even hatred) of authority figures, snarling violent defensiveness. By the time he formulated his Sola-Everything theories, he was a very troubled soul; his thinking replete with cognitive distortions.Let us remember that the tree is known by its fruit. Luther's chief allays were ambitious and very secular-minded knights who used the new ideologies to drive their own political influence. Even Henry Tudor, whom Luther ignored, took advantage of the ideologies to rebel -- not on theological grounds but on the grounds of producing an heir.”

Sorry, but I try not to participate in discussions with those using psychohistory. The psychohistory approach to Luther is the method of applying the science of psychoanalysis to a historical figure. This view holds history is more than simply “facts”- it is also the result of psychological forces that drive people to do what they do.
The problem: the psycho-historians all end up differently. Men like Denifle, Grisar, Smith, and Erikson used a similar approach in trying to understand Luther, none of them arrive at the same conclusions- or even minimize or maximize similar conclusions. So, even though Luther produced a large corpus of writings to draw analysis from, each of these psychohistorians arrive at different conclusions when digging for pychohistory "facts" .
How can someone do psychology on a dead man? One cannot. Thus, the psychohistory method, while interesting, should not be one’s main approach to learning about Martin Luther.For a more in-depth treatment, see my blog entry here.
"Do you believe that Luther's theories and behaviour were rational?"
Which part of "Sorry, but I don’t engage in discussions with those using psychohistory" didn't you understand?
"Wow! That's breathtakingly rude. How do you justify such behaviour on a Catholic forum?"
I do not "do" psychohistory. Sorry.It is frustrating when I made this clear, only to have another psychohistory question returned. Please, no more of these type of questions, I'm not interested.
And then, not to be outdone, a massive reply, note this guy thinks i'm advertising my book-
"May I ask you to consider the possibility that this is not your own private forum. Nor is it primarily designed to advertise your book. I am not saying that your posts are uninteresting or without merit. They are certainly very interesting and with much merit. That is not the point. First of all I understand your decision to remain within the boundaries of your particular historical analysis. That makes perfect sense to me. But, as you must surely know, there are other forms of analysis. And once you post on this forum, what you say is fair game and subject to any number of analytical methologies -- or lack thereof. To archly disallow any form of criticism but that which you approve is imho highly questionable in any academic community and even more so on this particular forum. Now I will concede that some forms of analysis are... well... worse than useless. Generally speaking psychobabble annoys me too. However it is contingent on you to consider more than one aspect of any one analytical methodology. And to address those aspects with not only rigour but also respect. That is so obvious that it surprises me that there is any need for a reminder.Certainly the practical use of an analytical approach is worthy of examination. The useful aspect of considering Luther's family background is that it sheds light not only on what may have been his own barriers to rationality -- if you will -- or community -- if you will -- or even courtesy -- if you will. It also sheds light on barriers that our contemporaries may have against same, and particularly against the Church.Let us keep in mind that what you find useful could quite well be different from what another person finds useful. Understanding what a major historical figure had against the Church is profoundly useful for Catholics.Of course we can't ascertain for sure whether or not Luther had PTSD. But we can draw parallels between his behaviour and the behaviour of our contemporaries who do have PTSD, while allowing for culturally and historically specific norms. If we can't draw parallels then what can we learn from history -- your version or anyone else's version -- that is of any use to anyone at all?The validity of psychohistorical approach is not diminished simply because three authors reached different conclusions. Moreover, when all is said and done, questioning the rationality of Luther's theories is not a psychohistorical question.Finally, I cannot stress the importance of courtesy enough. You must know better than to take the approach you have. Since when has any useful research come of discarding a friendly demeanor?I'm really not wanting any answers from you. Only that you exercise some restraint and respect in imposing your own norms on others who may wish to contribute to the discussion. Is that not a legitimate request? Is it unfair? Is it unreasonable?"

Funny how this guy began with certainty of his psychohistorical approach, and then when confronted as to the worth of this approach, it becomes theoretical. To engage in a discussion like this is to spin one’s wheels indefinitely. It is a conversation of pure speculation, only to be enjoyed by those bent on sophistry. It is usually an example of a double standard as well, because the same approach is not applied to those put forth as Roman Catholic heroes. Luther is assumed to have deep psychosis, while others are let off this his hook, despite whatever the historical record says of them. The reason? Why, they defend Rome, so they’re ok.

In regard to the proper protocol of the Catholic Answers forums, the topic category this posted in was “Sacred Scripture” so, the direction of this thread and this sub-forum would necessitate that it was this guy's speculative comments which don’t belong. Finally, I am not advertising a book. I don’t know where he got that from. It is Catholic apologist Gary Michuta who had been advertising his book, not me.

Some further dialog with Gary Michuta: Luther and Maccabees

I’ve had some sparse interaction with Catholic apologist Gary Michuta over on the Catholic Answers forums. Gary offered a friendly response to my previous comments:

First and foremost, thank you for your post, James. If I’m reading your post correctly, you may be the first prominent Protestant apologist to tacitly admit that Luther did once use these books in a canonical fashion. I’ve read dozens of written debates on this subject you may be the first, albeit in a roundabout way, to concede this. You’ve earned an autographed copy, buddy! My book is already producing good fruit. ; )

In regards to any supposed malicious intent, I can’t judge Luther’s heart or motives. I can only draw conclusions from the evidence, the same as you. I did my best to be fair and accurate to Luther as I do with all the people treated in my book trying give the reader a good sense of the historical context of each statement. My main focus of this section was to understand the rationale of Luther’s rejection at the Second Disputation since it is an important juncture in the history of the Deuterocanon. Luther’s a posteriori justification of his change may be important for Lutheran theology, but it is of limited value in understanding what his thoughts were at that important moment. I do, BTW, talk about his “Christ preached” canon within a canon approach both in that section and I critique it along with other views in Appendix 1 – Sola Scriptura And The Problem Of The Canon.

My book does focus on those who may have influenced Luther’s decision (so I do treat him as a historic figure). We take a look at Reuchlin and Staupitz, Erasmus, Wycliff, Hugh of St. Victor, William of Occam, Nicholas of Lyra, Cajetan, as well as the Complution Polyglott and the Gloss. It is my opinion that you really don’t understand another’s position unless you come to a point where you have sympathy for his view. I think, given the space constraints, it is a fair treatment. The book also examines the prefaces of the German, Swiss and English Bibles as well as the views of Oecolampadius, Calvin, Zwingli and various Protestant Confessions. Had I been allowed to publish Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger in its even bigger form (over 900 pages long and in two volumes), I would have gone into more detail. Hopefully, 336 pages will suffice. : )

In regards to Luther’s “weight with the faithful” remark, I think that it was a needed qualification. I understand your position, and I think my own understanding is close to yours. I suggest that Luther’s words are really an echo the thoughts of Alphonsus Tostatus. If I’m correct, Luther’s response to Eck is absolutely brilliant. Tostatus posited “For though these books are received by Christians, and proof derived from them do in some degree have weight, because the Church retains those books, yet they are not effectual to prove those things that are in doubt against heretics and Jews, as Jerome says…” In other words, Luther is reminding Eck that those outside the Church dispute whether the Deuterocanon is admissible in debate. Eck’s response is equally brilliant and, I believe, affirms this understanding, but I don’t want to spoil the book for you. Moreover, I don’t think it is wholly accurate to say Luther outright rejected the Deuteros. He did see them as having some weight since he included in his German Translation, calls “good and holy,” and does, in some sense, see them as part of the Old Testament. They just can't be used to confirm doctrine.

I am glad that the quotation on my website www.HandsOnApologetics.com didn’t raise any ire, but it certain did seem to have provoked some ridicule on your part. Indeed, you accused me of suppressing evidence if I remember correctly. No harm done. I’m glad you weren’t angry. Here is the reference for you and the rest (my apologies for not putting this in the proper format):

H. H. Howorth, “The Bible Canon of the Reformation,” The International Journal of the Apocrypha, No. 20, Series VI, Jan. 1910. p.14. Howorth quotes Luther’s words in Latin as: “…hoc volo, quod in universa Scriptura non habeatur memoria purgatorii, que posset stare in contentione et convincere: nam et liber Machabeorum, cum non sit in Canone, pro fidelibus potens est, contra pertinaces nihil facit.”

God Bless,Gary


Hi Gary,

Thank you for your response. I don’t recall admitting Luther used the apocryphal books in a “canonical fashion” previous to his encounter with Eck. Frankly, I haven’t done a lot of work in this area. You probably know, Luther quoted from the apocryphal books throughout his career, even preaching from them on occasion (but rarely). I may have a few of these sermons around somewhere in my library.

I certainly wouldn’t have a problem with it even if he did hold them to be canonical early in his career. Luther is a fascinating person to study- particularly to watch his views change on different subjects. He himself admits his early writings were not fully protestant, and should be read with caution. This is why I mentioned a few times his Prefaces to the apocryphal books should factor heavily as to his rationale in deeming them non-canonical. Your study of the various influences on Luther will be interesting. I look forward to it, but a total picture of Luther's view should be factored in as well.

I appreciated your interpretation of the Luther quote in question, and it is an interesting take. Luther though was not yet ‘officially’ outside the Church and clearly rejected 2 Maccabees. I do have some of the detailed discussion put forth by Howarth, but I haven’t had time to work through the Latin yet. Perhaps then, your interpretation is correct once Eck’s view is presented. Of course, I have never held that Luther found no value in the apocryphal books. As I mentioned before, he does indeed live up to his position and cites them where applicable. My writings on Luther and the canon reflect this.

In regard to the quote on your website, I first found it on August 4, 2006- on my way out the door for a vacation to the Carolina beaches. Words can translate poorly, as they are simply one-dimensional. You can’t hear the tone in my voice, or the intent in my questions. I found the quote very odd for the reasons I mentioned. I’ve read countless Catholic articles, books, blogs, etc., all mentioning Luther was cornered by Eck and had to give up Maccabees or affirm Purgatory. I go over to your site, and there is a quote with no explanation implying Luther affirmed Maccabees in this same debate. Think how confusing this is for your average Catholic layman. They rarely read Luther in context. Here's a debate where Luther denies Maccabees, there's your quote from the same debate with him affirming Maccabees. I have spent a lot of time doing the work Catholic laymen should do- citing Luther in context.

Thus, I questioned why such a quote would be put forth. I would still insist it is a misuse of a Luther quote- the man clearly denied the apocrypha, and died denying the apocrypha. Why put an ambiguous Luther quote on your webpage affirming the apocrypha? If my comments came off as ridicule, my apologies. If there is any particular wording you would like removed from my blog entry from on August 4, 2006, please PM me via these boards, or follow the e-mail link on my own blog.

Finally, thank you for the reference to Howarth. This article I don’t have, but the others I mentioned on my blog I do.

Regards,

James Swan

Friday, March 30, 2007

Luther: "2 Maccabees has weight with the faithful, but it won't avail against the obstinate"


I had a few more thoughts on Gary’s Michuta’s use of the Luther quote, Maccabees "has weight with the faithful, but it won't avail against the obstinate." The following is part of a response I left on the Catholic Answers boards.

Gary Michuta said:
“I probably shouldn't do this because it is one of several bombshells in my book, but I'll give you a little preview. Luther, apparently, shouldn't be counted as just one of several confused theologians of his era. If the Protestant scholar H. H. Howarth is correct (and I've read a lot of his works and he is always very accurate, Luther originally held the Deuterocanon to be canonical. In 1517, in a debate with the head censor of Rome, Luther claimed that he would only be persuaded in argument by the "canonical Scripture." In this same debate, Luther quotes both Sirach and Tobit against his opponent. One year later, in the Second Disputation at Leipzig, the Catholic Eck cornered Luther with a citation from Second Maccabees. Luther rejected Maccabees from the canon, but added the interesting concession that Maccabees "has weight with the faithful, but it won't avail against the obstinate."
I now have the article I think Gary is citing: H. H. Howarth, "The Origin And Authority Of The Biblical Canon According To The Continental Reformers: I. Luther And Karlstadt", Journal Of Theological Studies, 1907, Issue VIII, Volume XXXI, pp. 321–365.
I'm guessing Gary will be arguing Luther didn’t have any problem with the apocrypha until his theology of justification by faith alone became a key hermeneutic in his determination of canon. On the other hand, I’m hopeful his book covers the other reasons Luther put forth in his Prefaces why he rejected the apocrypha, written some years later.
If my understanding of Gary’s position proves accurate from his brief words, he is putting forth a maliciously-intent-Luther, rather than a theologian with both theological and historical reasons for rejecting the apocrypha. Remember, Luther is a historical figure. His theology grew and developed throughout his career. It doesn’t surprise me the more mature Luther grew in his studies of the historical and linguistic evidence against the apocrypha. I’m hopeful Gary’s book does more than cite the Eck debate and also presents Luther’s more defined mature position.
Michuta seems to be implying Luther rejected 2 Maccabees from the canon, yet conceded “the faithful,” or, those of the faith, grant it is canonical. I wonder which of these options he’s implying:
1. Luther put forth a contradiction
2. Luther simply did what he wanted to with Second Maccabees, knowing full well it was a canonical book. In other words, he knowingly rejected a canonical book because of its implied teaching on Purgatory.
Questions: Who are “the faithful” and who are “the obstinate”? Why is this a concession?
I think perhaps the phrase is probably a sarcastic jab, and not a concession to the validity of Second Maccabees. Michuta admits in this debate with John Eck when this statement was made, Luther rejects this book from the canon. Read the phrase this way: the “faithful” are those devoted to Rome and its teaching on Purgatory. Of course it has weight with them. But for those who are “obstinate”, or those who hold this book is not canonical, it will not avail, nor could it ever be of use, or be used to prove a Biblical doctrine. The key term is "the faithful". I think Luther does not mean, "Christians". He means those devoted to Rome, or those with faith in Rome.

What did the early Church Father's believe on justification?

...By the way, that's not me in the picture, but i have attempted to carry that many books.

Here's a great example from the CARM boards of asking a question the wrong way:

What did the early Church Father's believe on justification? Did they believe that we are justified by faith ALONE or by faith + good works?

Answer: (a compilation of previous blog entries)

There was no "one" belief recorded in the writings of the church fathers on Justification previous to Augustine. Alister Mcgrath points out:

“The history of early Christian doctrine is basically the history of the emergence of the Christological and Trinitarian dogmas. Whilst the importance of soteriological considerations, both in the motivation of the development of early Christian doctrine and as a normative principle during the course of that development, is generally conceded, it is equally evident that the early Christian writers did not choose to express their soteriological convictions in terms of the concept of justification. This is not to say that the fathers avoid the term 'justification': their interest in the concept is, however, minimal, and the term generally occurs in their writings as a direct citation from, or a recognisable allusion to, the epistles of Paul, generally employed for some purpose other than a discussion of the concept of justification itself. Furthermore, the few occasions upon which a specific discussion of justification can be found generally involve no interpretation of the matter other than a mere paraphrase of a Pauline statement. Justification was simply not a theological issue in the pre-Augustinian tradition. The emerging patristic understanding of matters such as predestination, grace and free will is somewhat confused, and would remain so until controversy forced a full discussion of the issue upon the church. Indeed, by the end of the fourth century, the Greek fathers had formulated a teaching on human free will based upon philosophical rather than biblical foundations. Standing in the great Platonic tradition, heavily influenced by Philo, and reacting against the fatalisms of their day, they taught that man was utterly free in his choice of good or evil. It is with the Latin fathers that we observe the beginnings of speculation on the nature of original sin and corruption, and the implications which thismay have for man's moral faculties.

'It has always been a puzzling fact that Paul meant so relatively little for the thinking of the church during the first 350 years of its history. To be sure, he is honored and quoted, but - in the theological perspective of the west - it seems that Paul's great insight into justification by faith was forgotten.'”

Source:Alister McGrath, Iustitia Dei: A History of the Christian Doctrine of Justification (New York: Cambridge University Press, 2000), 19.

In dialoging with Roman Catholics on sola fide, I have sometimes argued from their point of view: that is, the doctrine of justification was not, at the time of Luther’s writing, dogmatically defined in the Roman Catholic sense. In other words, Luther had freedom to hold the view on justification that he did within a Roman Catholic framework. See Jaraslov Pelikan’s book, Obedient Rebels: Catholic Substance and Protestant Principle in Luther’s Reformation [New York: Harper and Row, 1964]. I found this quote on page 51-52 quite interesting:

Existing side by side in pre-Reformation theology were several ways of interpreting the righteousness of God and the act of justification. They ranged from strongly moralistic views that seemed to equate justification with moral renewal to ultra-forensic views, which saw justification as a 'nude imputation' that seemed possible apart from Christ, by an arbitrary decree of God. Between these extremes were many combinations; and though certain views predominated in late nominalism, it is not possible even there to speak of a single doctrine of justification.”

I share this for one reason: don't get taken in by those silly arguments that "sola fide" was a theological "novum" previous to the Reformation. Pelikan says elsewhere:

"All the more tragic, therefore, was the Roman reaction on the front which was most important to the reformers, the message and teaching of the church. This had to be reformed according to the word of God; unless it was, no moral improvement would be able to alter the basic problem. Rome’s reactions were the doctrinal decrees of the Council of Trent and the Roman Catechism based upon those decrees. In these decrees, the Council of Trent selected and elevated to official status the notion of justification by faith plus works, which was only one of the doctrines of justification in the medieval theologians and ancient fathers. When the reformers attacked this notion in the name of the doctrine of justification by faith alone—a doctrine also attested to by some medieval theologians and ancient fathers—Rome reacted by canonizing one trend in preference to all the others. What had previously been permitted (justification by faith and works), now became required. What had previously been permitted also (justification by faith alone), now became forbidden. In condemning the Protestant Reformation, the Council of Trent condemned part of its own catholic tradition."

Source: Jaroslav Pelikan, The Riddle of Roman Catholicism (New York: Abingdon Press, 1959), pp. 51-52.

Thursday, March 29, 2007

Michuta, Luther, and Maccabees

Updated 10:00 p.m.
Catholic apologist Gary Michuta has been posting on the Catholic Answers message boards. He’s been mentioning his new book due out this month (I pre-ordered my copy on Monday), “Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger: The Untold Story Of The Lost Books Of The Protestant Bible.” Here’s a sneak preview:

"I probably shouldn't do this because it is one of several bombshells in my book, but I'll give you a little preview. Luther, apparently, shouldn't be counted as just one of several confused theologians of his era. If the Protestant scholar H. H. Howarth is correct (and I've read a lot of his works and he is always very accurate), Luther originally held the Deuterocanon to be canonical. In 1517, in a debate with the head censor of Rome, Luther claimed that he would only be persuaded in argument by the "canonical Scripture." In this same debate, Luther quotes both Sirach and Tobit against his opponent. One year later, in the Second Disputation at Leipzig, the Catholic Eck cornered Luther with a citation from Second Maccabees. Luther rejected Maccabees from the canon, but added the interesting concession that Maccabees "has weight with the faithful, but it won't avail against the obstinate." A phrase BTW that I have on my Deuterocanon page that has raised the ire of a certain anti-Catholic. I give the blow-by-blow of the Disputation in my book."

First, Gary says, "In 1517, in a debate with the head censor of Rome, Luther claimed that he would only be persuaded in argument by the "canonical Scripture." In this same debate, Luther quotes both Sirach and Tobit against his opponent. " Af far as I know, Luther did not debate the head censor of Rome in 1517. I think Gary means Luther's discussion or "interview" with Cardinal Cajetan in October 12-14, 1518. It was not a "debate". Luther was asked to recant, and angered Cajetan by wanting to discuss the matter. July 4-14, 1519, Luther particiated in an actual debate with John Eck in Leipzig. In fact, Gary corrects his mistake here.
Second, Gary says that Luther rejected Maccabees from the canon, yet the book "has weight with the faithful, but it won't avail against the obstinate." I'm very curious to see the context of this quote, and look forward to Gary's book.
Third, I managed to track down the names of some source documents of Howarth that I think Gary may be using, and I’ll probably have some of them within the week:
H. H. Howarth, "The Origin And Authority Of The Biblical Canon In The Anglican Church", Journal Of Theological Studies, 1906, Issue VIII, Volume XXIX, pp. 1–40

H. H. Howarth, "The Origin And Authority Of The Biblical Canon According To The Continental Reformers: I. Luther And Karlstadt", Journal Of Theological Studies, 1907, Issue VIII, Volume XXXI, pp. 321–365

H. H. Howarth, "The Origin And Authority Of The Biblical Canon According To The Continental Reformers: II. Luther, Zwingli, Lefèvre, And Calvin", Journal Of Theological Studies, 1908, Issue IX, Volume XXXIV, pp. 188–230

H. H. Howarth, "The Canon Of The Bible Among The Later Reformers", Journal Of Theological Studies, 1909, Issue X, Volume XXXVIII, pp. 183–232
Fourth, I think that’s me being described in the last sentence of Gary's sneak preview. I think the word “ire” might be a bit of poetic overkill. I am not angry that Gary cited Luther saying, “Maccabees has weight with the faithful, but it won't avail against the obstinate.” I simply wanted a reference. Even if Gary was quoting an older blog entry I did, even there I’m not angry, just looking for some more information. In fact, if you read this older entry, you'll see why the quote caught my attention.

I await Michuta’s book. As I’ve mentioned many times, I’m not interested in making Luther anything other than what he was. If Michuta’s work shows Luther held the canonicty of Second Maccabees, and then later rejected it, fine. Big deal. If though, Michuta simply cites Howarth, it will make me suspect he never read the primary document, in which case, I’ll have to do the work of looking up the reference and tracking it down. I don’t know too much about Gary, other than seeing him at the apocrypha debate he did against Dr. White a few years ago. I’ve never read a book by him, so I await to see how he presents his information. I hope for the best.

Martin Luther on the Church Fathers #1


“I cannot tolerate their [read: Catholic apologists] slandering and blaspheming Scripture and the holy fathers. They accuse Scripture of being obscure, although all the fathers attribute the brightest light to it and draw from it, as David says in Psalm 119[:105], “Your word is my light.” Again, they attribute to the fathers the light with which to illumine Scripture, even though all the fathers confess their own obscurity and only illumine Scripture with Scripture. That is the real art, to gather Scripture correctly. The father who can do this best is the best father. One should read the books of all the fathers with caution, not believing them but rather watching out whether they also cite clear passages and illumine Scripture with clear Scripture. How could they have overcome the heretics if they had fought with their own glosses? They would have been regarded as fools and senseless people. But since they cited such clear passages, which did not need glosses, that all reason was captivated by them, the evil spirit himself, along with all the heresies, had to retreat before them.” [LW 39:164]

“Indeed, the writings of all the holy fathers should be read only for a time so that through them we may be led into the Scriptures. As it is, however, we only read them these days to avoid going any further and getting into the Bible. We are like men who read the sign posts and never travel the road they indicate. Our dear fathers wanted to lead us to the Scriptures by their writings, but we use their works to get away from the Scriptures. Nevertheless, the Scripture alone is our vineyard in which we must all labor and toil.” [LW 44:205]

Wednesday, March 28, 2007

Banned From Envoy Forums








I appear to be kicked off Patrick Madrid's Envoy forums. I think "speak your mind" might not be the best way for Patrick to advertise. Funny, I don't think I've ever been kicked off a forum before.

The entirety of the two posts which got me booted was a link to an article on Nicea which reviewed an Envoy article (which was deleted), and then a follow up post in which I said something like, "oh well, so much for that." I know what you're thinking, I had it coming for doing such an awful thing. Had I just simply been insulting like Art Sippo and Crimson Catholic, perhaps I would still be speaking my mind.

For the details, check this link:
Go Ahead, Speak Your Mind on Envoy, Just Don't Link to aomin.org

Luther and Esther: Another Response To a Defender of Rome


I noted to a defender of Rome that Luther’s Bible and Prefaces tend to be his definitive statement as to how he felt about which books were canonical. In that material, missing are comments about the non-canonicity of Esther, found is Esther among the canonical books in his translation of the Bible. My basic question to Rome's defender is the following: how does this fact fit into a view that argues Luther rejected the canonicity of Esther? I sifted through the response offered to me, and it can be summarized in three basic points:

1. Luther was subjective in regard to the canon
Luther had a subjective view of the canon. Luther does not accept the canon as an extra-biblical infallible fact defined by an infallible church. Luther relies on his own opinion to establish the canon. Luther’s opinion on the canonicity of Hebrews and Revelation fluctuated, why couldn’t the same be said of his view of Esther?

2. Luther accepted the received tradition to avoid disputes
Sometimes Luther accepts the received tradition of the church to avoid time-wasting disputes. Therefore, Luther kept a non-canonical book (Esther) in the canonical section of his Bible for such a reason.

3. The evidence supports Luther’s lifelong commitment to the non-canonicity of Esther
The evidence of Luther’s writings suggests he held a lifelong commitment to the non-canonicity of Esther. In The Bondage of the Will, Luther says Esther has less basis than any other apocryphal book to be regarded as canonical. In an older version of the Table Talk, Luther says Esther is at least as bad as 2 Maccabees, this proves Esther is non-canonical as well.


Here is an evaluation of these three points.

1. Luther was subjective in regard to the canon
This point allows for Luther to at least have held to the canonicity of Esther and then changed his mind, or vice versa, or even repeatedly changing  his view throughout his life. I do not have a problem with the logic of this answer. In applying this answer to Luther’s Bible and his Prefaces, it would be possible that Luther included Esther as canonical, and later changed his mind. This defender of Rome isn't really arguing this, he seems to simply raise it as a possibility. Thus, I grant this hypothetical point.

As a point of tedium, in his response this defender of Rome cites Paul Althaus as holding Luther was subjective on the canon, particularly page 336 of The Theology of Martin Luther. Had one continued reading Althaus, the next few sentences say: “Roman Catholic theology has up until the present day, frequently condemned Luther’s method of approaching and validating the authority of Scripture as subjective and arbitrary. But Luther is as far from heaven is from the earth in determining the center of Scripture by himself and self-confidently presenting his theology as this center” [Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther, 336 – 337]. By “center of the Scripture” Althaus is referring to that which determined canonicity for Luther. Of course, this particular defender of Rome can list numerous scholars who hold Luther was subjective. That’s not the point. The point I’m making is Althaus cannot be lumped in with them, based on his own context. This was a clear misuse of Althaus.

2. Luther accepted the received tradition on the canon to avoid a dispute
In regard to his writing against Erasmus in Bondage of the Will, this appears to be the case. When compiling his Bible though, Luther made a strong effort to sort out the canonical material from the non-canonical material in both the Old and New Testaments. His method was to sort the books according to his own theological purpose combined with the testimony of church history. Perhaps this defender of Rome could argue Luther made a mistake, simply didn’t care, or was simply accepting a tradition to avoid a dispute. This would be an argument from silence, and to my knowledge, it would be his argument only (I've not encountered it previously). I have not read any scholar using it. Simply because it is his own personal theory does not mean it’s wrong. It would mean though, a case would need to be presented that included evidence from Luther’s Bible and Prefaces substantiating this claim.

The defender of Rome cites a quote I used from Jaroslav Pelikan about Luther’s “canon within a canon.” The citation should have been given a fuller context (which I provided in the paper he cited). Pelikan begins the quote by saying, “[Luther] did not pretend that the church could undertake the construction of the canon anew, or that it could function with a canon open at both ends. Never, even at the height of his criticism of James, did he drop it from his editions of the Bible, any more than he dropped the Old Testament Apocrypha.” True, Luther retained the Old Testament Apocrypha in his Bible, but he made sure to place these books in a clearly defined section at the end of the Old Testament. Recall, Esther was included with canonical books. The received tradition was all of the books purported to be Scripture in the 16th Century. Luther though made very specific points and arguments to substantiate what the canon within the canon was. Those books falling outside of the true canonical material were regulated to the back of both Testaments.


3. The evidence supports Luther’s lifelong commitment to the non-canonicity of Esther
The evidence available in English on this subject is sparse. In the standard English set of Luther’s Works, only The Bondage of the Will Esther quote addresses the canonicity of the book. The comment would be around the time Luther translated Esther for his Bible. Perhaps supporting point 2? Or perhaps supporting point 1? Or both? Or neither? I don’t know.

I noted previously, Roger Beckwith (author of The Old Testament Canon of the New Testament Church) has said, “It is sometimes said that Luther, following certain of the Fathers, denied the Canonicity of Esther, but Hans Bardtke has questioned this, as not taking into account of all the evidence (Luther und das Buch Esther, Tubingen Mohr, 1964).” I have this book. Bardtke offers around seventy instances in which Luther refers to Esther. Most often, these passing references demonstrate the canonicity of the book.

In regard to the Table Talk quote, the Table Talk cannot be used to dictate Luther’s opinion, as it is not an official writing of Luther’s. It can provide perspective on an already established fact, but it itself cannot establish Luther’s opinion. .

Conclusion
I think this defender of Rome's point #1 can be valid in regard to Luther’s Bible and prefaces. It is indeed possible his opinion fluctuated even if Esther was considered at first canonical, and then later rejected. To my knowledge, this did not happen to any of the books in Luther’s Bible. That is, I know of no book he considered canonical, and then later went on to doubt as being canonical. But it could be the case. Is it likely? I don’t think so, because there is no evidence of him ever doing this. Could it be Luther was simply using the apocrypha against Erasmus in The Bondage of the Will? Yes it could. Could it be Luther woke up every day with a different view of Esther? Indeed it could. When one bases an opinion on Luther’s subjectivity, anything is possible.

Point #2 is the obstacle for this defender of Rome. He needs to explain why Luther did not place Esther with the other apocryphal writings. It doesn’t help to suggest Luther accepted the received tradition on Esther to avoid disputes. If there is one thing Luther didn’t care about, it was avoiding disputes. He was very accurate in how he wanted his Bible laid out. It does not follow that the placement of Esther provoked him to avoid a dispute, as Esther is not nearly as important for Luther as the books of the New Testament and many of the Old Testament books. Also, there was already a dispute on Esther, so whatever Luther did would not have been so shocking. Also note, the dispute in The Bondage of the Will about the validity of biblical books would have indeed sidetracked the discussion with Erasmus. In the subject of the canon, Luther hit this head on in his Prefaces. It would not have been a sidetrack to the topic.

Point #3 really rests on one citation, The Bondage of the Will quote. The Table Talk is interesting, but it’s a Table Talk. It is evidence, but evidence that will always have more than an element of doubt, because of reasons I noted above, and also for the reason that brought about this entire discussion: a mis-citation that I brought back to the light, buried in books from the 1800’s.

First update after the posting of this blog entry: Ok, I tried to take this Roman defender seriously and I got back exactly what I expected. He has given me an entire response filled with mocking and silliness, mixed in with attempts at fruitful dialog.

Second update after the posting of this blog entry: Well, he has edited his response, after one his "fans" said:
"Please find below some highlighted portions of your discussion with Mr Swan, that if painlessly excised, would strengthen your argument by not denigrating your antagonist and removing from him any excuse about "mocking and silliness". I know it is very hard to avoid them, but sometimes an impartial "charity editor" on tone and connotation is important."
And then he posted these "highlights from his response:
-we get the usual tired, boring recourse
-(almost surrealistically)(again, time-tested textbook anti-Catholic methodology).
-pitifully weak
-mercilessly, absurdly butchering
-muddleheadedness and incomprehension here, in light of the numerous arguments I presented, boggle the imagination.
-(where does Jimbo think I got the idea, after all?; I didn't pull it out of a hat):Jimbo"

Addendum (2016)
This blog entry is a revision of an entry I posted back in 2007. The original can be found here. Nothing of any significant substance has changed in this entry from that presented in the former.