From an earlier post in the com boxes. I have edited some of it.
John, (an Eastern Orthodox commentor) reminded us of Cyprian's statement -
Thanks for that reminder about what Cyprian wrote about "custom without truth, is an ancient error".
Very helpful and true.
"Nor ought custom, which had crept in among some, to prevent the truth from prevailing and conquering; for custom without truth is the antiquity of error."
Cyprian, Epistle 73, 9. (against Stephen, bishop of Rome)
Ken said...
All,
Even if Peter died in Rome, it does not establish any such thing as a Papacy or Pope.
There is no such thing is a Pope or Papacy in the 27 books of the NT.
Also, the earliest writings affirm that a college/plurality of elders and the office of bishop is the same office. The names of elder and bishop is interchangable in the NT and earliest writings of the early fathers.
1 Clement 42-44 ( 96 AD) - 2 offices - 1. elders and overseers are the same and 2. deacons
Didache 15 (70 - 120 AD ?) 2 offices 1. overseers/bishops and 2. deacons
Philippians 1:1 - 2 church offices - 1. overseers (episcopas, bishops) and 2. deacons
Acts 14:23 (the apostles appointed elders for each church)
Titus 1:5-7 - verse 5 - appoint elders for each city - verse 7 - elders are the same as bishop/ overseer/ episcope
Also, James Swan pointed out that the evidence for Rome is that it did not have a mono-episcopate until much later. ( I Clement, Shepherd of Hermas, Peter Lampe's book and work; John Bugay wrote a lot in this area also, both here and over at Triablogue. see at the Addendum below)
Moreover, NONE of the earliest churches had a mono-episcopate. They all had a plurality of elders at first.
Ignatius (writing around 107-117 AD, ?) is the first evidence of the mono-episcopate, and seems to be where that custom/practice started.
Acts 20:17 - called the elders of the church in Ephesus
Acts 20:28 -the elders are to shepherd (Pastor, feed and guard) the flock of God, which God has made you overseers
1 Peter 5:1-4 - Peter calls himself fellow elder
and exhorts the elders to shepherd the flock and to act as overseers.
Babylon of 1 Peter 5:13 could be a cryptic reference to Rome, or the original Babylon of the OT in Mesopotamia, or Babylon could be a metaphor for apostate Jerusalem.
It seems that Ireneaus, Tertullian, Hegessipus, and Eusebius are reading a mono-episcopate office back into the first century by their "bishops list" of only one bishop appointed by Peter or other apostles in other areas.
The big question for me is how strong is the tradition that both Peter and Paul were executed by Nero around 67 AD in Rome, Peter by being crucified upside down, and Paul by being beheaded.
Even if Peter died in Rome, it does not establish any such thing as a Papacy or Pope.
There is no such thing is a Pope or Papacy in the 27 books of the NT.
Also, the earliest writings affirm that a college/plurality of elders and the office of bishop is the same office. The names of elder and bishop is interchangable in the NT and earliest writings of the early fathers.
1 Clement 42-44 ( 96 AD) - 2 offices - 1. elders and overseers are the same and 2. deacons
Didache 15 (70 - 120 AD ?) 2 offices 1. overseers/bishops and 2. deacons
Philippians 1:1 - 2 church offices - 1. overseers (episcopas, bishops) and 2. deacons
Acts 14:23 (the apostles appointed elders for each church)
Titus 1:5-7 - verse 5 - appoint elders for each city - verse 7 - elders are the same as bishop/ overseer/ episcope
Also, James Swan pointed out that the evidence for Rome is that it did not have a mono-episcopate until much later. ( I Clement, Shepherd of Hermas, Peter Lampe's book and work; John Bugay wrote a lot in this area also, both here and over at Triablogue. see at the Addendum below)
Moreover, NONE of the earliest churches had a mono-episcopate. They all had a plurality of elders at first.
Ignatius (writing around 107-117 AD, ?) is the first evidence of the mono-episcopate, and seems to be where that custom/practice started.
Acts 20:17 - called the elders of the church in Ephesus
Acts 20:28 -the elders are to shepherd (Pastor, feed and guard) the flock of God, which God has made you overseers
1 Peter 5:1-4 - Peter calls himself fellow elder
and exhorts the elders to shepherd the flock and to act as overseers.
Babylon of 1 Peter 5:13 could be a cryptic reference to Rome, or the original Babylon of the OT in Mesopotamia, or Babylon could be a metaphor for apostate Jerusalem.
It seems that Ireneaus, Tertullian, Hegessipus, and Eusebius are reading a mono-episcopate office back into the first century by their "bishops list" of only one bishop appointed by Peter or other apostles in other areas.
The big question for me is how strong is the tradition that both Peter and Paul were executed by Nero around 67 AD in Rome, Peter by being crucified upside down, and Paul by being beheaded.
Addendum:
Thanks to John Bugay for adding the passages from the Shepherd of Hermas to the early witness that each church had a plurality of elders and not a mono episcopacy until later. The earliest church history is elders for each church. This also proves John Henry Cardinal Newman's statement wrong, "to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant". The clear reality of the earliest church government being a college of elders proves Newman was wrong.
The elderly woman came and asked me if I had already given the little book to the elders (presbuteroi, plural). I said that I had not given it. “You have done well,” she said, “for I have words to add. So when I finish all the words they will be made known to all the elect through you. Therefore you will write two little books, and you will send one to Clement and one to Grapte. Then Clement will send it to the cities abroad, because that is his job. But Grapte will instruct the widows and orphans. But you yourself will read it to this city [Rome], along with the elders (presbuteroi) who preside (proistamenoi – plural leadership) over the church.” (Vis 2.4)
Hermas also notes that these elders fight amongs themselves over primacy (meaning no one had it), and that they, themselves "have no instruction":
Now, therefore, I say to you [tois – plural] who lead the church and occupy the seats of honor: do not be like the sorcerers. For the sorcerers carry their drugs in bottles, but you carry your drug and poison in your heart. You are calloused and do not want to cleanse your hearts and to mix your wisdom together in a clean heart, in order that you may have mercy from the great King. Watch out, therefore, children, lest these divisions of yours [among you elders] deprive you of your life. How is it that you desire to instruct God’s elect, while you yourselves have no instruction? Instruct one another, therefore, and have peace among yourselves, in order that I too may stand joyfully before the Father and give an account on behalf of all of you to your Lord.” (Vis 3.9)
Addendum 2:
Algo reminded me of an earlier link I made over to a very thorough article by Brandon Addison. We appreciate the Roman Catholics at Called to Communion for allowing such an article there.
The Quest for the Historical Church, by Brandon Addison
http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2014/03/the-quest-for-the-historical-church-a-protestant-assessment/
Thanks to John Bugay for adding the passages from the Shepherd of Hermas to the early witness that each church had a plurality of elders and not a mono episcopacy until later. The earliest church history is elders for each church. This also proves John Henry Cardinal Newman's statement wrong, "to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant". The clear reality of the earliest church government being a college of elders proves Newman was wrong.
The elderly woman came and asked me if I had already given the little book to the elders (presbuteroi, plural). I said that I had not given it. “You have done well,” she said, “for I have words to add. So when I finish all the words they will be made known to all the elect through you. Therefore you will write two little books, and you will send one to Clement and one to Grapte. Then Clement will send it to the cities abroad, because that is his job. But Grapte will instruct the widows and orphans. But you yourself will read it to this city [Rome], along with the elders (presbuteroi) who preside (proistamenoi – plural leadership) over the church.” (Vis 2.4)
Hermas also notes that these elders fight amongs themselves over primacy (meaning no one had it), and that they, themselves "have no instruction":
Now, therefore, I say to you [tois – plural] who lead the church and occupy the seats of honor: do not be like the sorcerers. For the sorcerers carry their drugs in bottles, but you carry your drug and poison in your heart. You are calloused and do not want to cleanse your hearts and to mix your wisdom together in a clean heart, in order that you may have mercy from the great King. Watch out, therefore, children, lest these divisions of yours [among you elders] deprive you of your life. How is it that you desire to instruct God’s elect, while you yourselves have no instruction? Instruct one another, therefore, and have peace among yourselves, in order that I too may stand joyfully before the Father and give an account on behalf of all of you to your Lord.” (Vis 3.9)
Addendum 2:
Algo reminded me of an earlier link I made over to a very thorough article by Brandon Addison. We appreciate the Roman Catholics at Called to Communion for allowing such an article there.
The Quest for the Historical Church, by Brandon Addison
http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2014/03/the-quest-for-the-historical-church-a-protestant-assessment/
Posts
