What's wrong with using an accoustic guitar in worship or even a tastefully done electric guitar?
I don't understand the anti-pathy to ALL contemporary forms.
I wish doctrinal churches would use more accoustic guitar and update from only organ or only piano and hymns. mix it up and have both and be discerning and tasteful and skillful.
But it takes some one with maturity and knowledge and discernment in choosing good ones with Biblical words and Biblical theology.
The Video seems to have a mocking tone; I get the point; but I did not like the tone or spirit of the thing.
Ken, I don't think anybody here is suggesting that a guitar is a sin. What you should understand is that this kid is making fun of his own Christian sub-culture. His videos are usually very clever and more insightful than you might expect. And his point about vapid, silly lyrics and musical blah-ness is pretty much spot on.
Yeah, I don't have any problem with guitars in church (and also, I play guitar).
What I found relevant from the video is it captured how poorly put together (or formulaic) some worship music is. I don't mind contemporary worship (my church does), but I do mind bad contemporary music passing itself off as worship.
I'm always reminded of this comment from Larry Norman. Larry used to describe being an audience member at a Christian music concert, and the performer said,
"God gave me this song, and I'd like to share it with you..."
After the song, Larry's comment was, "God gave you that? He was probably glad to get rid of it."
Andrew and James - Very good; all of that was helpful clarification and agreed.
There are some acoustic guitar worship songs that are shallow, yes; but then there are also lots of new Reformed minded that have deep theology and good words and more skillfully done playing than what is mocked in that video.
But, I would personally love to learn acoustic guitar well enough to sing worship songs in my private worship. ( I am a drummer, and tried to learn to play guitar for a quarter in seminary, but it was hard.
seeing Phil Keaggy - cool; I wish I could see him live too. He and the late Keith Green are my favorite Christian musicians. I think Michael Card is an excellent musician also, and has good theology (as far as I know and can tell) in his CDs - I really like his "Unveiled Hope" - the whole book of Revelation is put to music. (not every verse, but the main chapters from beg. to end.)
I was in a service like that and one of the leaders referred to the people as the "audience" instead of the "congregation". If ever I get tired of the liturgy I need to go one of these kinds of things.
I've seen Keaggy a number of times since 1981 or so. The funny thing is, I've never been a big Keaggy fan, but I've probably seen him live close to a dozen times. I certainly do though appreciate his talent.
I've seen a number of the classic Christian bands. I saw the Resurrection Band in either '79 or 1980, and then a number of times after that. I still love the Colours album. Servant, Fireworks, Randy Stonehill, Mylon, you name it- I probably saw them back in the day.
I really though gravitated towards Larry Norman's music as a kid, probably because I grew up in a conservative church that looked down on rock music. While Larry certainly wasn't a great musician, his entire persona and outlook on the Christian life struck a chord with me.
I went to a Roman Catholic church and the singer and organ were in the balcony at the back of the church. This is how music used to be in many churches that were acoustically accommodating. Churches should have an orchestra pit for the musicians. The way church is done today is to mimic the worlds way of entertainment. Anything that smacks of MTV or a rock concert should be rejected. All clapping after a song should be stopped. This isn't a Broadway show it's church. A guitar is a great instrument for church. The song Silent Night was written on a guitar because the organ was done. The playing of worldly songs needs to be stopped also. The idea of a Christian Star needs to be preached against. Christians should have their music available to everyone one for free download. It's fine to sell records or even charge for a concert but as Christian we must offer the Gospel through song for free like Jesus, Paul and the Apostles did. The whole idea of how we do church is wrong. A church without a prayer alter or place to kneel is a waste of money. My house shall be called a house of prayer was the words of Jesus.
This video really shows the hollowness of much of what falls into the category of "contemporary Christian music," and by negation it points to the beautiful simplicity of Reformed worship.
What came to mind as I watched this and read the comments (both there and here) was the striking difference between our music in the Reformed tradition and the music exemplified in the video. Our lyrics are either drawn from or inspired by the Scriptural Psalms themselves, and whatever musical instruments we use are secondary to the congregation (which is really the primary "instrument" in Reformed worship). Interestingly, this perspective completely circumvents most current debates on lyric content or instrumentation.
What also amazed me as I watched the video was how few comments were posted on the YouTube page challenging it. It seems that the overwhelming majority of commenters were more than willing to acknowledge the shallowness and insincerity of this kind of "Christian" music--many of them even admitted that they sang it in their own churches!
So, as we note the growing interest in Reformed theology among American churches today and emphasize the unique comfort our tradition has to offer, maybe we should keep in mind that the simplicity of Reformed worship will come as a breath of fresh air to many of these dissatisfied churchgoers as well. I'd say we ought to make sure we are doing music well in our churches, but I don't think we need to change anything about its content or form. Let the Psalms speak and the congregation sing, and that is enough!
-----
On a more personal level, Mr. Swan, I'm wondering if we've met. I'm a member and musician at your sister church, West Sayville Reformed Bible Church on Long Island. I was the organist at Synod 2012 and have visited PPRBC multiple times. I was so happy to stumble upon your blog through the recommendation of a URCNA minister in Anaheim, CA, and I would be delighted to talk more. I blog on church music over at URC Psalmody, so if you'd like, you can email me via the contact page there:
http://urcpsalmody.wordpress.com/contact-mrk/
Blessings in Christ!
Michael Kearney West Sayville URC Long Island, New York
"He that has ever so little examined the citations of writers cannot doubt how little credit the quotations deserve when the originals are wanting"
xx
Looking for an Obscure Luther Quote? Chances are if you've wound up on this site, you're looking for information on an obscure quote said to come from Martin Luther or one of the other Protestant Reformers. This blog has been compiling information on obscure Reformation quotes for over a decade. Use the search engines below to look for your particular obscure quote.
“Let nobody suppose that he has tasted the Holy Scriptures sufficiently unless he has ruled over the churches with the prophets for a hundred years. Therefore there is something wonderful, first, about John the Baptist; second, about Christ; third, about the apostles...“We are beggars. That is true.” - Martin Luther
"It is true that the best apologetics can be given only when the system of truth is well known. But it is also true that the system of truth is not well known except it be seen in its opposition to error."- Cornelius Van Til
"But a most pernicious error widely prevails that Scripture has only so much weight as is conceded to it by the consent of the church. As if the eternal and inviolable truth of God depended upon the decision of men!"- John Calvin
"The Scriptures obtain full authority among believers only when men regard them as having sprung from heaven, as if there the living words of God were heard."- John Calvin
This is the best book available on Sola Scriptura. For Protestants, it will help you understand and defend sola scriptura. For Catholics, this book will help you understand exactly what Protestants mean by sola scriptura, rather than what you think it means. I highly recommend getting this book, it never leaves my desk, and serves as a valuable reference tool.
10 comments:
What's wrong with using an accoustic guitar in worship or even a tastefully done electric guitar?
I don't understand the anti-pathy to ALL contemporary forms.
I wish doctrinal churches would use more accoustic guitar and update from only organ or only piano and hymns. mix it up and have both and be discerning and tasteful and skillful.
But it takes some one with maturity and knowledge and discernment in choosing good ones with Biblical words and Biblical theology.
The Video seems to have a mocking tone; I get the point; but I did not like the tone or spirit of the thing.
Ken,
I don't think anybody here is suggesting that a guitar is a sin. What you should understand is that this kid is making fun of his own Christian sub-culture. His videos are usually very clever and more insightful than you might expect. And his point about vapid, silly lyrics and musical blah-ness is pretty much spot on.
Yeah, I don't have any problem with guitars in church (and also, I play guitar).
What I found relevant from the video is it captured how poorly put together (or formulaic) some worship music is. I don't mind contemporary worship (my church does), but I do mind bad contemporary music passing itself off as worship.
I'm always reminded of this comment from Larry Norman. Larry used to describe being an audience member at a Christian music concert, and the performer said,
"God gave me this song, and I'd like to share it with you..."
After the song, Larry's comment was, "God gave you that? He was probably glad to get rid of it."
btw Ken...
Pending the weather, I'm going to see Phil Keaggy on Saturday.
Andrew and James -
Very good; all of that was helpful clarification and agreed.
There are some acoustic guitar worship songs that are shallow, yes; but then there are also lots of new Reformed minded that have deep theology and good words and more skillfully done playing than what is mocked in that video.
But, I would personally love to learn acoustic guitar well enough to sing worship songs in my private worship. ( I am a drummer, and tried to learn to play guitar for a quarter in seminary, but it was hard.
seeing Phil Keaggy - cool; I wish I could see him live too. He and the late Keith Green are my favorite Christian musicians. I think Michael Card is an excellent musician also, and has good theology (as far as I know and can tell) in his CDs - I really like his "Unveiled Hope" - the whole book of Revelation is put to music. (not every verse, but the main chapters from beg. to end.)
I was in a service like that and one of the leaders referred to the people as the "audience" instead of the "congregation". If ever I get tired of the liturgy I need to go one of these kinds of things.
Ken,
I play guitar, sort of. If I had any talent to share with you, I would.
Ken,
I've seen Keaggy a number of times since 1981 or so. The funny thing is, I've never been a big Keaggy fan, but I've probably seen him live close to a dozen times. I certainly do though appreciate his talent.
I've seen a number of the classic Christian bands. I saw the Resurrection Band in either '79 or 1980, and then a number of times after that. I still love the Colours album. Servant, Fireworks, Randy Stonehill, Mylon, you name it- I probably saw them back in the day.
I really though gravitated towards Larry Norman's music as a kid, probably because I grew up in a conservative church that looked down on rock music. While Larry certainly wasn't a great musician, his entire persona and outlook on the Christian life struck a chord with me.
I went to a Roman Catholic church and the singer and organ were in the balcony at the back of the church. This is how music used to be in many churches that were acoustically accommodating. Churches should have an orchestra pit for the musicians. The way church is done today is to mimic the worlds way of entertainment.
Anything that smacks of MTV or a rock concert should be rejected. All clapping after a song should be stopped. This isn't a Broadway show it's church. A guitar is a great instrument for church. The song Silent Night was written on a guitar because the organ was done. The playing of worldly songs needs to be stopped also. The idea of a Christian Star needs to be preached against. Christians should have their music available to everyone one for free download. It's fine to sell records or even charge for a concert but as Christian we must offer the Gospel through song for free like Jesus, Paul and the Apostles did. The whole idea of how we do church is wrong. A church without a prayer alter or place to kneel is a waste of money. My house shall be called a house of prayer was the words of Jesus.
This video really shows the hollowness of much of what falls into the category of "contemporary Christian music," and by negation it points to the beautiful simplicity of Reformed worship.
What came to mind as I watched this and read the comments (both there and here) was the striking difference between our music in the Reformed tradition and the music exemplified in the video. Our lyrics are either drawn from or inspired by the Scriptural Psalms themselves, and whatever musical instruments we use are secondary to the congregation (which is really the primary "instrument" in Reformed worship). Interestingly, this perspective completely circumvents most current debates on lyric content or instrumentation.
What also amazed me as I watched the video was how few comments were posted on the YouTube page challenging it. It seems that the overwhelming majority of commenters were more than willing to acknowledge the shallowness and insincerity of this kind of "Christian" music--many of them even admitted that they sang it in their own churches!
So, as we note the growing interest in Reformed theology among American churches today and emphasize the unique comfort our tradition has to offer, maybe we should keep in mind that the simplicity of Reformed worship will come as a breath of fresh air to many of these dissatisfied churchgoers as well. I'd say we ought to make sure we are doing music well in our churches, but I don't think we need to change anything about its content or form. Let the Psalms speak and the congregation sing, and that is enough!
-----
On a more personal level, Mr. Swan, I'm wondering if we've met. I'm a member and musician at your sister church, West Sayville Reformed Bible Church on Long Island. I was the organist at Synod 2012 and have visited PPRBC multiple times. I was so happy to stumble upon your blog through the recommendation of a URCNA minister in Anaheim, CA, and I would be delighted to talk more. I blog on church music over at URC Psalmody, so if you'd like, you can email me via the contact page there:
http://urcpsalmody.wordpress.com/contact-mrk/
Blessings in Christ!
Michael Kearney
West Sayville URC
Long Island, New York
Post a Comment