Thursday, May 10, 2012

The President, our Culture, and some Preachers continue to "Evolve" in their views

1.  President Obama and his support of "gay-marriage".  
President Obama implies that Jesus would have supported "gay-marriage".   Joe Carter calls this contemptible and "blasphemous".  Indeed.  Excellent article by Joe Carter, and it appears the original site has been hacked and is down, (last time I checked) so thanks to Denny Burke, we can read the whole thing.

President Obama's Faith:  Where the President was interviewed about his faith in 2004 as a Senator, and he only called Jesus a good teacher and did not say He was Lord, Savior, or Messiah.

President Obama's Twisting of the meaning of Scripture in defense of "Gay-Marriage".

2.  This is an interesting article on how we frame the argument over the so called "same-sex marriage" (which is really no such thing) issue:

Which came from this article by Ryan Anderson:

3.  Dr. James White does an excellent job recently of responding to two pro-"gay" activists:  one is Dan Savage, who is a radical who calls for legalization of all sorts of sexual relationships, and obviously Savage hates God and the Bible.

Video response to Dan Savage, who is a very radical pro-homosexual and pro-multi-variations on human relationships.  (says we ought to free to have polygamy and ?)
Savage was speaking on the subject of "anti-bullying", but did some "bullying" of his own at Christian high school students, as he cursed the Bible at a high school and some students walked out on him, and then he mocked them.  

The other is a Matthew Vines, who is trying to re-interpret the Bible so as to use it for homosexuals.
Matthew Vines, who claims to be a Christian and gay, tries to use the Bible to promote his pro-homo view.

James White is responding:
Part 1 - 

Part 2- 

4.  The Controversy over Andy Stanley's illustration of a homosexual couple:

This is very disturbing; (Read Burke's articles for the details) even more disturbing than Barak Obama's "evolution" on "gay marriage".  (Because of the answers he gave to this issue before during the 2008 campaign, it honestly seemed like he was really for it, and according to other reports, he was for "same sex marriage" in 1996).  

Andy says lots of good things, but when he leaves out so much, he leaves so many things unsaid, and mixes the good with some bad, even the good things get twisted into a wrong meaning.  His seeker-senstive paradigm and his view, it seems, that one can be a Christian and live in constant sin (he usually says things like, "You can be a Christian, and you can be living in sin, and  you will be miserable, but still go to heaven."), seems to influence most every thing else. 

I watched Part 5, 6, 7, 8, and Part 1 and most of Part 2 of Andy's series called, "Christian" at the North Point Community Church Web-site.   Part 5 was the most shocking one, where he gave the illustration of the homosexual couple.  (Read Denny Burke's articles for the details and/or watch and listen to Andy's sermon.)  But Andy never clarified in part 6, 7 or 8; and according to other reports, he had declined to speak to the press when asked. (so far)  I also watched another sermon he did called, "The Separation of Church and Hate", which has a lot of the same theme. 

In his sermon, "When Gracie met Truthy" (Part 5 of the series, "Christian"), Andy emphasized grace over truth, at the expense of truth, even though he claimed to be "a truth-type of guy".   In this series, he seems to thinks that the most important thing the church needs to be doing is over-coming it's "branding" by our culture and unbelievers -  the wrong perception that others have of the church - that we are mean and judgmental and disputatious and angry and "homo-phobic".  Andy emphasized John 13:33-34 - "they will know you are My disciples if you have love for one another".  That is true; but sometimes the most loving thing a person can do is to rebuke sin, and judge. (think, evaluate, make a decision about something or someone)   John 7:24 says, "Do not judge according to appearances, but judge with a right judgement".   Matthew 7:6 shows that we have to have discernment and make a judgment on who is a wild pig or wild dog who will trample on holy things, and Matthew 7:15 ff shows we have to make judgments and think and discern who false prophets and false teachers are. 

From John 13:34-35,  Andy needs to keep reading into John 14 and 15.   The power to love is only possible in the power of the Holy Spirit (John 14, 16) and continually abiding in Christ. (John 15)  Later Jesus repeated the command to "love one another" in John 15:17.  Notice what comes afterward.  He seems to have forgotten John 15:17-25.  "If the world hates you, know that it has hated Me before it hated you." (John 15:18)    Some "branding" of us comes from personal experience with hypocrites and bad -behavior of some Christians, for sure.  However, maybe a lot of the branding comes from mis-understanding and the spreading of lies about us, because some of these unbelievers actually have real hatred of Jesus Christ Himself.  

It is true that Christians are called "disciples" of Jesus Christ, more than the word "Christian"; but that does not mean that the word itself has no value.  (it is used 3 times in the NT - Acts 11:26; Acts 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16)  The unbelievers called them that, and it meant "follower of Christ" and it seems to  have had mocking overtones.  But 1 Peter 4:16 is a positive use of the word from Peter himself, as a result of suffering for the faith, and Peter says, "let him glorify God in that name".   I wonder if Andy remembers that the Romans also called the Christians "atheists", because of their rejection of the idols and false gods of Rome, and because the Christians said that there is only one true creator God!  (see The Martyrdom of Polycarp 3:2, for example)  Andy was right that the disciples of Jesus Christ of the first three centuries shook the world by their love and godly behavior, but they also shook the world by their preaching the gospel (Acts 17:1-6) and that includes teaching sound doctrine, warning of hell and the wrath of God; calling for repentance (Acts 17:30-31) and teaching in the church services and taking the Lord's supper, and the exercise of church discipline.  (Matthew 18:15-20; I Corinthians chapter 5; 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15; Titus 3:10-11).  And those actions all came from what?  From faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and convictions about truth and doctrine.

It is true that we have a "branding" problem in our culture generally, but two wrongs don't make a right, and also, people tend to get their view of the church from the media and hollywood pundits and they are not exactly accurate. I wonder if Andy considered that the 'branding" of conservative Christians as "hateful" and "homo-phobic" and "mean", etc. are actually lies told about us, just as the Romans calling the Christians "atheists" and "cannibals" and "having sex orgies" were total lies about the Christians.   See the wikipedia entry below and sources, quote number 10 is by Bart Ehrman, who points out that the Romans didn't like the Christians because they were anti-social, not participating in the general pagan culture and celebrations, among other reasons.  Interesting. 

"On a more social, practical level, Christians were distrusted because of the secret and misunderstood nature of their worship. Words like "love feast" and talk of "eating Christ's flesh" sounded suspicious to the pagans, and Christians were suspected of cannibalism, incest, orgies, and all sorts of immorality.[11]"  

Here is another excellent article on "How to Win the Public on Homosexuality".

These two parts were especially insightful:

"Same-sex marriage doesn't radically depart from modern morality; it makes perfect sense according to contemporary mores. Blogger Rod Dreher writes:
"The reason gay marriage is so widely accepted by young Americans is not because the media have propagandized them (though it is certainly the case that the media have played a significant role in normalizing it), but because same-sex marriage follows naturally from what young Americans already believe about sex, intimacy, love, liberty, and the nature of the human person."

. . . .
Look no further for our culture's confessional statement in three points:
  1. God made me this way.
  2. He wouldn't deny my natural desires.
  3. And I don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else."
Before God turned them over to their homosexual lusts in Romans 1:26-27; God turned them over to their heterosexual lusts in Romans 1:24-25 - fornication (pre-marital sex, visiting prostitutes, modern application - pornography; and adulteries, divorces and serial divorces caused by lust and adulteries). They worshipped sex itself, as a "god".  


Truth Unites... and Divides said...

Deep thanks Ken for this compilation.

I really like this part:

"Andy emphasized John 13:33-34 - "they will know you are My disciples if you have love for one another". That is true; but sometimes the most loving thing a person can do is to rebuke sin, and judge."

Ken said...

You're welcome, TUAD.

Dr. C said...

Legalism vs. Grace? I'll always err toward the side of grace.

Martin Yee said...

God save America! Even the local TV news here in Singapore reported about this! :(

PeaceByJesus said...

Thanks for the compilation, to which this can be added.

Also, "Theologians blast US bishops on same-sex marriage:

Three theologians who teach at Jesuit institutions--Paul Lakeland of Fairfield University, Daniel Maguire of Marquette University, and Frank Parella of Santa Clara University--blasted the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops for its opposition to same-sex marriage."(

In no place does the Bible sanction marriage between same genders, despite attempts to extrapolate it, and it only condemns homosexual relations - by design and decree, in principle and by precept - and the injunctions against them are part of the transcendent moral laws. (Lv. 18:22; Rm. 1:26,27) All homosexual relations are rendered fornication, and that of a most perverse kind.

And i find the manipulation of the Scriptures by them to be more serious than even homosexuality, an extensive examination of which may be seen here.

But we are all guilty of serious sins, which we cannot justify, and there is room at the cross for all who will turn to Christ from sin, trusting Him to save them by His blood and righteousness, and so follow Him daily, and repent when convicted of not doing so, as i often am.

To God be the glory, for so great salvation, by the great God and our savior Jesus Christ. (Titus 2:13)