Thursday, May 24, 2012
Luther's Salvation
I've not had a chance to attend to the blog lately. I have though been engaged in a discussion on exactly what Lutherans mean by baptism and faith on the Carm boards: Luther's Salvation. If you're interested in exactly what Lutherans think about baptismal regeneration, the gift of faith, etc., you'll find this discussion interesting.
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8 comments:
"If you're interested in exactly what Lutherans think about baptismal regeneration, the gift of faith, etc., you'll find this discussion interesting."
Lutherans sure do put a lot of focus on baptism. Some even go as far to say that baptism is Gospel.
Yes, of course, it is part of the gospel.
"Believe and be baptized"
"make disciples, baptizing them...."
"repent and be baptized...for the forgiveness of sins".
etc, etc.
-Joe H.
I wasn't able to join the CARM bbs because I couldn't correctly answer the security question (what country IS the state of Florida, in btw? It apparently isn't the USA, the CSA, or Florida and I couldn't think of anything else to try). Hey, I didn't think of trying "NAFTA" oh, well.
I do want to make sure that you know that traditional Lutherans don't generally think that EVERYONE is given faith. God hasn't told us in scripture that he will work saving faith other than through the gospel. I assume the person who told you that lives in a cultural milieu where everyone is baptized as an infant and was thinking of the question in those terms.
OTOH, if the person you had that discussion with was raised in the ELCA who knows what he was taught. I know I heard some goofy things along the way.
Also, someone else was admittedly talking about a "faith" that is something other than Christian faith, which is not an invalid use of the word (like most words in a natural language, the word "faith" has many meanings) but which is confusing and which confused and somewhat derailed the discussion. I have faith that my skilled and conscientious civil engineer friend designed a safe bridge but that, while truly corresponding to one of the definitions of the word "faith" is not the faith that God works in the believer.
Steelikat-
Thanks for your comments.
I'm baffled by the use of Acts 17:31 by the Lutheran in the discussion.
Hi James,
I guess what that Lutheran by using Acts 17:31 is trying to say is that God will keep His promise. God assured (faith-ed) us of His promise to judge the world by resurrecting Christ from the dead. Lutherans when they talk about "faith" normally think of it as "trusting God's promise". So that Lutheran guy is underscoring his point that God will grant forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit in baptism as promised through Peter (Acts 2:38).
Interesting discussions.
Martin
God assured (faith-ed) us of His promise
Lutherans when they talk about "faith" normally think of it as "trusting God's promise".
I'm not exactly sure what my Lutheran friend on the CARM boards is saying. I highlighted your two sentences above to point out that the word "faith" is being used in
two different ways. In the first, it's being used as an action of god, in the later, an action of man.
It appears to me my Lutheran friend on CARM may be employing some type of meaning switch when he's speaks about "faith."
Hi James,
Faith is a gift of God, a work of the Holy Spirit, which created in us Christians a trust in the Gospel promise.
Not sure if that makes sense to you?
A former Baptist, now a Lutheran called Kelly has written a book to answer from a Lutheran perspective many questions asked by Baptists which is downloaded free at http://www.bythefont.com/baptismqa.zip
In another forum Kelly wrote:
"In short, Baptism isn't a human work, but God's work and his free gift of delivering the salvation won on the cross. Just as a person can be saved by a preacher preaching and we don't call THAT "salvation by works" although work and even paychecks are involved, so we don't call God's other delivery methods human works meriting forgiveness, either. If the Word is there and his promise is there, it's effectual."
Martin
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