"Authority", Luther vs. the Catholic Church.

How did I spend my summer vacation?

Every so often I refer to the long-running CARM thread, "Authority", Luther vs. the Catholic Church. Part one of this thread is now archived here. Part two (which is still active) can be found here. I stop in on this discussion every so often. There are months though when I don't even bother. This summer I spent quite a while there, particularly from July 23 to September 7.

Why post on CARM? Well, not in any effort to change the mind of the Roman Catholic (Tim) who has been on a tirade against the Reformation for a few years now. What intrigued me was his bold assertion on July 23,  "I Have Never Plagiarized a Thing" when in fact he had plagiarized a source for one of his posts only a few days before this declaration. He then offered to stop posting on CARM for 3 months if it could be proved he did indeed plagiarize. That I did. Did he have the integrity to live up to his 3 month offer? No, of course not. For all his talk about authority, he is his own authority.

That provoked me to get more involved in this discussion, and show that not only was this person a plagiarizer, his arguments were spurious and his use of reference material was questionable. He's been posting snippet quotes from different Luther-related books. Working through his use of the material was also a way for me to interact with the particular authors he gravitated towards. It's one thing to simply read a book. It's quite another thing to interact with the material one has read and someone else is quoting. Such an exercise will force one to read a text with even more care.

My schedule for the rest of 2011 will no longer allow for visiting CARM. I've posted on CARM for over decade, but not with the same frequency as I did years ago. One of the reasons I left CARM and started blogging was because I simply got tired of Matt Slick dumping all the contents of the discussion boards every few years: Poof! Gone! The blog was a way for me to keep track of the materials I worked through. So, thank you Matt Slick for deleting years worth of discussions and directing me towards a blog.

In order for me to have a record of exactly what I said and where in the "Authority", Luther vs. the Catholic Church thread, the following is set of links to my responses. This is simply for me to remember, so whenever (or if) I rejoin this folly, I can get a refresher of what I posted previously. It was difficult to sort this thread out, as multiple topics enveloped each other. In the beginning I hammered away at the simple fact that this person plagiarized, and then moved on to his other multiple topics. My hyper-linked posts are simply designated "JS Response."

Tim early on said "James I LOVE it when you spend time here." After a while, his tune changed, and he ceased responding to my comments.

1.Tim: "I Have Never Plagiarized a Thing". Tim promises to not post on CARM for three months if he's caught plagiarizing.
    JS Response: Tim caught as a plagiarizer: he uses multiple pages of a self-published Luther book.

2. Tim: I am not a plagiarizer. "As you well know James, none of those POSSIBLE miscitations are any form of plagiarism. I did not claim those citations as my own work."
    a. JS Response: Tim questioned on being a plagiarizer.
    b. JS Response:  A look at the Luther quote Tim cited, "Whoever teaches differently from what I have taught herein, or condemns me for it, he condemns God, and must be a child of Hell."
    c. JS Response: I am not a Luther expert.
    d. JS Response: "Whoever teaches differently from what I have taught herein, or condemns me for it, he condemns God, and must be a child of Hell" was plagiarized from a source that provided incorrect documentation.
    e. Tim: Backpedaling on being a plagiarizer.
    f. Tim: Insults and an attempt to change the subject.

JS Response: Tim questioned again on being a plagiarizer. Definition of plagiarism.

5. Tim: More backpedaling on being a plagiarizer.
    a. JS Response: John Martignoni allows for instances plagiarizing.
    b. Tim: Insults.
    c. JS Response: Tim violates CARM rules.
    d. Tim: denies being a plagiarizer.
    e. Tim: Who is John Martignoni?
    f. Tim: John Martignoni revisited. "James I LOVE it when you spend time here." Plagiarism comments.
    g. JS Response: Ever heard of Google?
    h. JS Response: get help from a friend.
     i. Tim: More Martignoni. "I have some advice for you James: Do NOT enter the ministry in any form." "Luther is your idol"
     j. JS Response: Martignoni / Google.
     k. JS Response
         l. Tim: Busted again
     m. JS Response

6. Tim: More backpedaling on being a plagiarizer.
     a. JS Response: Tim is a plagiarizer.
     b. JS Response: Tim is a plagiarizer.

7. Tim: Protestant Biographies of Luther.
8. Tim: Luther's superstitions.

9. Big Bear: Question on Hartmann Grisar.
    a. JS Response: Hartmann Grisar.
    b. JS Response: Grisar on Luther's syphilis
    c. PVB: Luther's Syphilis
    d. JS Response: Links to the debate on Romans 3:28 with Tim
    e. Tim: Hartmann Grisar, False legend of Luther."I post many quotes because they contain actual facts, the kinds of detail that you aren't going to find in a standard one volume biography." 

10. RR1213: Problems with cutting and pasting without documentation.
      a. JS Response: Give me a context!
      b. Tim: why is cutting and pasting wrong?
      c. JS Response: There's nothing wrong with cutting and pasting.

11. Tim: Topics: Swan spins facts, Swan claims to not have an anti-catholic bias, peasants war,  Luther plagiarized his Bible translation, Tim is not a plagiarizer.
   JS Response: Tim is a plagiarizer.

12. Tim: Luther's demonology (Vedder, Oberman, Erikson), Luther plagiarized his Bible translation.

13. Tim: Luther's demonology warning (Fife, Oberman, Marius)
      a. JS Response: Marius, Oberman
      b. JS Response:Marius
      c. JS Response: Erikson
          1. Tim: Erikson
          2. JS Response: Erikson
      d. JS Response: Vedder
          1. Tim: Vedder " Are you disparaging Baptist historians, or are you just hoping that people are going to think less of him and dismiss his comments BECAUSE he was a Baptist?" "I know how much you hate to expose your opinions"
          2. JS Response: Vedder
          3. JS Response: My opinions
     e. JS Response: O'Hare, Oberman
     f. JS Response: Erikson
     g. JS Response: Fife

14. Tim: "Luther's terror over his salvation and his (supposedly) "Scriptural discovery" of Salvation by Faith Alone, which again, nobody ever "noticed" before in the Bible." "It couldn't be more obvious that you are doing everything you possibly can to slow me down in this build up to those HONEST Protestant Scholars, which "connect the dots" between Luther's psychological problems"
      a. JS Response: Franz Posset / Saint Bernard
      b. JS Response: "Would you rather I don't comment on your posts? You've been hounding me for a long time to comment on your ramblings, and now you want me to stop?"

15. Tim: Peasants Revolt, Luther was a plagiarizer (so says Vedder)
      a. JS Response
      b. JS Response
      c. JS Response

16. Tim: Luther's demonology, Vedder, Grisar, Fife, Smith
       a. JS Response, Vedder
       b. JS Response, Grisar
       c. JS Response

17. JS: The Quotable Luther #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6

18. PVB: Luther's claim to authority
      JS Response

19. Tim: Luther the Plagiarizer/The False Legend, Vedder, Grisar, Emser, Dau
      a. JS Response, Vedder, Codex Teplensis, Schaff, Dau
      b. JS Response, Reu
      c. JS Response, Emser
      d. JS Response, Reu vs. Vedder
      e. JS Response, Emser
      f. JS Response, Schaff

20. Big Bear: No Patience in Reading Tim's Posts.
      a. Nic: Response
      b. Big Bear: Response
      c. Tim: Response
      d. JS Response
      e. JS Response (100 word rule)
      f. JS Response
      g. JS Response

21. Tim: Response on Luther's Demonology
      a. JS Response
      b. JS Response
      c. JS Response
      d. JS Response: Pelikan / Dolan

22. Tim: Response on Luther's Demonology
      a. JS Response
      b. JS Response
      c. JS Response
      d. JS Response
      e. JS Response
      f. JS Response

23. Tim: Tim's 14 Points Against Luther
      a. JS Response
      b. JS Response: Bigamy
      c. JS Response: Book of James
      d. JS Response: The Jews
      e. JS Response:  Peasants War
      f. JS Response: Putting Adulterers to death
      g. JS Response: Anabaptists, Romans 3:28, Scadanavian church, Luther's volatile language, false gospels
      h. JS Response: Luther didn't believe in hell, Marius
      i. JS Response: Masturbation

24. Tim: Nailed Again
     a. JS Response
     b. JS Response

24. Tim: Insults, etc.
      JS Response

25. Ridderbos: Manic Depression
      a. Ridderbos: Critique of Tim
      b. Ridderbos: Tim's arrogance
      c. Tim: response
      d. Ridderbos: response
      e. Tim: response
      f. Ridderbos: Response
      g. Tim: Response
      h. JS: Response
      i. JS: Response
      j. JS: Response
      k. JS: Response

26. Tim: Luther Enters the Monastery
      a. JS Response
      b. JS Response
      c. JS Response
      d. JS Response
      e. JS Response
      f. JS Response
         1. Nic: Response
         2. JS: Response
     g. JS Response

27. Tim: Luther Enters the Monastery #2
28. Tim: Luther Enters the Monastery #3

27. Tim: Humiliation
      a. JS Response: Tim-vective #1
      b. JS Response: Tim-vective #2
      c. JS Response: Tim-vective #3
      d. JS Response: Tim-vective #4
      e. JS Response: Tim-vective #5

28. Tim: You introduce the term "enemy"
      a. JS Response
      b. JS Response

29. rr123: Scrupulosity
      a. Tim: response
      b. rr123: Response
      c. rr123: Response
      d. JS Response
      e. JS Response

30. Tim's Vacation
      JS: Response: I'm so glad we had this time together.