"I Have Never Plagiarized a Thing"

Here's one of those interesting cyber-moments. A CARM Romanist who basically thinks I'm a dishonest idiot wrote this post. He states:

Here’s the FACT though…..In the almost three years I have been posting here, I HAVE NEVER PLAGIARIZED A THING. You got that? I post quotes from primarily Protestant Scholars to back up my points and EVERY TIME, I list them along with the page number. You have falsely accused me or at least alluded to me as a possible plagiarizer.

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Pick out a phrase that you think I didn’t write and simply plug it into a search engine. If you can find anything that I have ever plagiarized I will not post on this thread for three months. If you aren’t willing to take me up on the offer then I demand an apology.

Well, with this response post, I've given this guy three months off from CARM. After three years of posting, I think he's earned a vacation.

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Update: The original CARM thread has been deleted. Below is my response.

" I have never plagiarized a thing"

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Originally Posted by Tim MD

Here’s the FACT though…..In the almost three years I have been posting here, I HAVE NEVER PLAGIARIZED A THING. You got that? I post quotes from primarily Protestant Scholars to back up my points and EVERY TIME, I list them along with the page number.

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One of Tim's earlier posts (#509) is taken from the book, Martin Luther: Catholic Critical Analysis and Praise.

Tim posts the following:

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“Against all the sayings of the Fathers, against all the arts and words of angels, men and devils I set the Scriptures and the Gospel . . . Here I stand and here I defy them . . . The Word of God I count above all else and the Divine Majesty supports me; hence I should not turn a hair were a thousand Augustines against me, and am certain that the true Church adheres with me to God's Word.”(Against Henry VIII, King of England, 1522; in Grisar, Vol. IV, 391 / from Werke [Weimar], Vol X, II, p. 256 ff.)

“Whoever teaches differently from what I have taught herein, or condemns me for it, he condemns God, and must be a child of Hell.” (Ibid., from: O'Connor, 15)

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Take notice of the last bit of documentation: (Ibid., from: O'Connor, 15). If you scroll through Tim's post, try and locate what the "O'Connor" refers to. You'll notice, "O'Connor" is not defined in the post.

In the self published Lulu book Martin Luther: Catholic Critical Analysis and Praise, the author uses these same quotes in the same order on page 44:

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Against all the sayings of the Fathers, against all the arts and words of angels, men and devils I set the Scriptures and the Gospel . . . Here I stand and here I defy them . . . The Word of God I count above all else and the Divine Majesty supports me; hence I should not turn a hair were a thousand Augustines against me, and am certain that the true Church adheres with me to God's Word. (Against Henry VIII, King of England, 1522; in Grisar, Vol. IV, 391 / from Werke [Weimar], Vol X, II, p. 256 ff.)

Whoever teaches differently from what I have taught herein, or condemns me for it, he condemns God, and must be a child of Hell. (Ibid., from: O'Connor, 15)

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Now, the rest of the quotes likewise come from this book, in more or less the same order. Tim first cites:

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“And even if it were true that I had set myself up all alone (as everybody’s teacher), that would be no excuse for their conduct. Who knows but that God has called me and raised me up? They ought to fear lest they despise God in me.

Do we not read in the Old Testament that God commonly raised up only one prophet at a time?.............God never allowed more than one man alone to preach and rebuke the people.

I say not that I am a prophet, but I do say that the more they despise me and esteem themselves, the more reason they have to fear that I may be a prophet . . . If I am not a prophet, yet for my own self I am certain that the Word of God is with me and not with them, for I have the Scriptures on my side, and they have only their own doctrine. This gives me courage, so that the more they despise and persecute me, the less I fear them.

The lie has always had the majority, the truth the minority on its side. Nay, if it were only a few insignificant men who were attacking me, I should know that what I wrote and taught was not yet of God. St Paul raised much disturbance with his doctrine, as we read in Acts; but that did not prove the falsity of his doctrine.” (An Argument in Defense of All the Articles of Dr. Martin Luther Wrongly Condemned in the Roman Bull, 1521; from: Works of Martin Luther [PE], Vol. III, 12-14,17; translated by C. M. Jacobs)

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This is found on page 41-42:

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They accuse me of setting myself up all alone to be everybody’s teacher. I answer, I have not set myself up, but have preferred at all times to creep into a corner. It is they who have drawn me out by wile and force, that they might win glory and honor at my expense. Now that the game is going against them, they think me guilty of vainglory. And even if it were true that I had set myself up all alone, that would be no excuse for their conduct. Who knows but that God has called me and raised me up? They ought to fear lest they despise God in me.

Do we not read in the Old Testament that God commonly raised up only one prophet at a time? Moses was alone in the Exodus, Elijah was alone in King Ahab’s day, Elisha, after him, was alone, Isaiah was alone in Jerusalem, Hosea alone in Israel, Jeremiah alone in Judaea, Ezekiel alone in Babylon, and so forth. Even though they had many disciples, called “children of the prophets,” God never allowed more than one man alone to preach and rebuke the people.

Moreover, God never once made prophets out of the high-priests or others of lofty station; but usually He raised up lowly and despised persons, even at last the shepherd Amos. King David was an exception, but even he came up from lowly rank. Therefore the saints have always had

to preach against those in high places - kings, princes, priests, doctors - to rebuke them, to risk their own lives, and sometimes to lose them . . .

The lie has always had the majority, the truth the minority on its side. Nay, if it were only a few insignificant men who were attacking me, I should know that what I wrote and taught was not yet of God. St Paul raised much disturbance with his doctrine, as we read in Acts; but that did not prove the falsity of his doctrine. Truth has always caused an uproar; false teachers have always said, “Peace, peace,” as Isaiah and Jeremiah tell us.

(An Argument in Defense of All the Articles of Dr. Martin Luther Wrongly Condemned in the Roman Bull, 1521; from: Works of Martin Luther [PE], Vol. III, 12-14,17; translated by C. M. Jacobs)

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Tim cites:

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“I have said repeatedly: Assail my person if you will, and in any way you will; I do not claim to be an angel. But I will allow no one to assail my teaching with impunity, since I know that it is not mine, but God’s. For on this depends my neighbor’s salvation and my own, to God’s praise and honor.” (Reply to the Answer of the Leipzig Goat, 1521; from PE, Vol. III, 293-294; translated by A. Steimle)

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This is on page 42:

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I have said repeatedly: Assail my person if you will, and in any way you will; I do not claim to be an angel. But I will allow no one to assail my teaching with impunity, since I know that it is not mine, but God’s. For on this depends my neighbor’s salvation and my own, to God’s praise and honor. (Reply to the Answer of the Leipzig Goat, 1521; from PE, Vol. III, 293-294; translated by A. Steimle)

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Tim cites:

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“Your plea to be heard from Scripture is the one always used by heretics.......Martin, how can you assume that you are the only one to understand the sense of Scripture? Would you put your judgment above that of so many famous men and claim that you know more than they all? You have no right to call into question the most holy orthodox faith.........”

“And even if I called myself an evangelist by the grace of God, I would still be more confident of proving it than that any one of you could prove his episcopal title or name. I am certain that Christ himself, who is the master of my teaching, gives me this title and regards me as one. Moreover, he will be my witness on the Last Day that it is not my pure gospel but his.”, Against the Spiritual Estate of the Pope and the Bishops Falsely So-Called, July 1522; LW, Vol. 39: Church and Ministry I; translated by Eric W. and Ruth C. Gritsch, and appears on pp. 239-299; this citation is from pp. 247-248)

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The first quote is not from the book in question, but is a quote Tim has used for a while. According to Tim's post he says it's from LW 39 247-248. I checked, it isn't there.

The second quote is on page 42:

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In order to get things started, I call myself an ecclesiastic by the grace of God in defiance of you and the devil, although you call me a heretic with an abundance of slander. And even if I called myself an evangelist by the grace of God, I would still be more confident of proving it than that any one of you could prove his episcopal title or name. I am certain that Christ himself, who is the master of my teaching, gives me this title and regards me as one. Moreover, he will be my witness on the Last Day that it is not my pure gospel but his. Thus your raging and raving is not going to help you at all. Rather, the more you rage and rave, the haughtier we shall be toward you, with God’s help, and shall despise your disgrace.

(Against the Spiritual Estate of the Pope and the Bishops Falsely So-Called, July 1522; LW, Vol. 39: Church and Ministry I; translated by Eric W. and Ruth C. Gritsch, and appears on pp. 239-299; this citation is from pp. 247-248)

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Tim uses this quote:

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“Therefore, I now let you know that from now on I shall no longer do you the honor of allowing you-- or even an angel from heaven -- to judge my teaching or to examine it. For there has been enough foolish humility now for the third time at Worms, and it has not helped. Instead, I shall let myself be heard and, as St. Peter teaches, give an explanation and defense of my teaching to all the world - I Pet. 3:15. I shall not have it judged by any man, not even by any angel. For since I am certain of it, I shall be your judge and even the angels’ judge through this teaching (as St. Paul says [I Cor. 6:3 ]) so that whoever does not accept my teaching may not be saved -- for it is God’s and not mine. Therefore, my judgment is also not mine but God’s.” (Ibid., 278)

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This quote is on page 43, but he probably took the wrong reference (Ibid., 278) while cutting and pasting:

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Therefore, I now let you know that from now on I shall no longer do you the honor of allowing you -- or even an angel from heaven -- to judge my teaching or to examine it. For there has been enough foolish humility now for the third time at Worms, and it has not helped. Instead, I shall let myself be heard and, as St. Peter teaches, give an explanation and defense of my teaching to all the world - I Pet. 3:15. I shall not have it judged by any man, not even by any angel. For since I am certain of it, I shall be your judge and even the angels’ judge through this teaching (as St. Paul says [I Cor. 6:3 ]) so that whoever does not accept my teaching may not be saved -- for it is God’s and not mine. Therefore, my judgment is also not mine but God’s. (Ibid., 248-249)

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The (Ibid., 278) goes with another quote on page 44:

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Here you stand against St. Paul, against the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit stands against you.(Ibid., 278)

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Regards, James Swan

Edited to add: I searched this thread for the book title, "Martin Luther: Catholic Critical Analysis and Praise". Unless I missed something, it is never cited by TimMD.

Edited to add again:

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Originally Posted by Tim MD

If you can find anything that I have ever plagiarized I will not post on this thread for three months.

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See you in 3 months Tim, enjoy your time away from CARM.