Saturday, February 06, 2016

Luther: I have greater confidence in my wife and my pupils than I have in Christ

Here's an obscure Table Talk quote that makes the rounds: “I have greater confidence in my wife and my pupils than I have in Christ” (Table Talk, 2397b). It surfaces on Internet discussion boards. as well as on Roman Catholic web pages like Luther Exposing the Myth, The 38 Most Ridiculous Things Martin Luther Ever Wrote, Martin Luther the Bare Truth Unfolded, and many others.

Documentation
The most common documentation given is "Table Talk, 2397b." This is a good indicator that the quote came from Peter F. Wiener's Martin Luther, Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor (1945). Wiener states,

"Luther does not always see eye to eye with God or Christ. 'I have greater confidence in my wife and my pupils than I have in Christ,' he said on one occasion quite shamelessly (“Table Talk”, 2397b).

The Table Talk is a collection of second hand comments written down by Luther's friends and students, published after his death. It is not something he actually wrote, but rather contains utterances he's purported to have said. "2397b" is not a page number. The utterances are numbered, so  "2397b" refers to the actual statement purported to have been made by Luther. LW 54 explains of this numbered statement, "The pieces numbered 1950 to 3416 in WA, TR 2 and 3 belong to the years 1532 and 1533 and were collected, though not necessarily recorded, by Conrad Cordatus" (LW 54:169). The actual reference then would be to WA 2:446.


Context

2397a and 2397b say similar things, but the text is purported to come from 2397b. The text in 2397b does say " Ego uxori meae et vobis singulis plus confido quam christo," but then comes a comma with the conclusion: "cum tamen nullus vestrum haec pro me faceret, ut crucifigeretur et moreretur pro me." The conclusion of the sentence is left out of the popular form circulating around the Internet, and actually gives the utterance quite a different meaning than that implied by Rome's defenders. 

Neither of these statements are contained in the English Luther's Works vol. 54. However, an old edition of the Table Talk (The Familiar Discourses of Dr. Martin Luther)  includes the following:
That God is more loving unto us than a Father towards his Children
GOD hath a better and more friendly heart towards his faithful ones, than a father or mother can have towards their children; as God himself saith in the Prophet Isaiah, Chapter xlix. Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion of the son of her womb? yea, they, may forget, yet will not I forget thee, etc. But God must have patience with us. I believe that St. Paul was at enmity with himself, because he could not believe and love Christ so entirely as willingly he would have done. Fie on the devil, and on our wicked flesh, that we cannot believe and trust in God, who hath given us so great and manifold benefits, and still doth give us all his goodnesses, I myself must confess, that I can put more trust in my wife, and in every one of my friends, than in Christ: when as, notwithstanding, I well know, that none among them all would do and suffer for me that which he suffered, namely, to be crucified and slain for me.
Some form of the text of 2397a / 2397b appears to be at the conclusion of this paragraph:
Fie on the devil, and on our wicked flesh, that we cannot believe and trust in God, who hath given us so great and manifold benefits, and still doth give us all his goodnesses, I myself must confess, that I can put more trust in my wife, and in every one of my friends, than in Christ: when as, notwithstanding, I well know, that none among them all would do and suffer for me that which he suffered, namely, to be crucified and slain for me.
As to the former part of the paragraph, it appears to come from a different Table Talk statement all together. Or, it could very well be two other Table Talk statements that precede the quote in question.

Conclusion
Despite the fact that the Table Talk is often devoid of context, the popular version of this statement leaves out the entirety of the sentence: "cum tamen nullus vestrum haec pro me faceret, ut crucifigeretur et moreretur pro me." This is captured and expanded upon in the English rendering, "notwithstanding, I well know, that none among them all would do and suffer for me that which he suffered, namely, to be crucified and slain for me." Perhaps the author putting this into English utilized both 2397a and 2397b. Whatever liberties may have been taken with the English rendering, the sentence even in a bald literal form presents a sentiment expressing the fact that it is wrong and sinful to put trust in anyone more than in Christ. This is much different than Wiener saying it means, "Luther does not always see eye to eye with God or Christ."

Addendum
This blog entry is a revision of an entry I posted back in 2009. The original can be found here. Because so many sources are now available online, I'm revising older entries by adding additional materials and commentary, and also fixing or deleting dead hyperlinks. Nothing of any significant substance has changed in this entry from that presented in the former.

2 comments:

Carl Vehse said...

"Whatever liberties may have been taken with the English rendering, the sentence even in a bald literal form presents a sentiment expressing the fact that it is wrong and sinful to put trust in anyone more than in Christ. This is much different than Wiener saying it means, 'Luther does not always see eye to eye with God or Christ.'"

James, the numerous references and snapshots you provide for sources in the original language and various translations make it much easier for the studious reader to distinguish between sloppy excerpting and deliberately taking a quote of of context.

Furthermore, as you noted, in the past few years there are so many more sources now available on the internet, including those dealing with Martin Luther, that targeting papists' misleading claims about Luther's views is getting to be like shooting fish in a barrel (on Friday ;-) ).

It also means, especially in this period of quincentennial sermons, speeches, books and church articles, that Lutherans themselves have much less excuse for promulgating unreferenced quotes from Luther he neither wrote nor said.

BTW, as you revised some older entries in Beggars All, your Resources: Martin Luther (A great place to start when looking for a reference source on Luther!) has a number of non-working links. However, some of the links can still be accessed through the Wayback Machine.

James Swan said...

BTW, as you revised some older entries in Beggars All, your Resources: Martin Luther (A great place to start when looking for a reference source on Luther!) has a number of non-working links. However, some of the links can still be accessed through the Wayback Machine.

thanks for all your support and kind words. Yes, I've been meaning to update many of my entries here for a long time. That resources one i'll get to eventually.

That so many old sources are online now really is amazing. To actually find sources now that I've read about for over 10 years is really, well...fun. Just the other day I found "L.C.12.s.17." Ten years ago I wasn't quite sure what that reference meant, yet Rome's defenders put it out there to appear credible. I doubt any of them could've located the source "L.C.12.s.17" that they used as documentation. Now, I've found the entire volume.