Thursday, April 18, 2019

Responses to Catholic Nick's article on Imputation as part of Justification by Faith Alone

https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2019/04/18/response-to-catholic-nick-on-imputation-as-part-of-justification-by-faith-alone/

From several years ago, Joey Henry wrote an excellent 8 Part response to "Catholic Nick" (linked to on Devin Rose's blog) on Imputation as part of Justification by Faith Alone, which I hope to write more about later if and when I find the time.

7 comments:

James Swan said...

I recall "Joey Henry." I did a simple search here on the blog and found I mentioned that name back in 2006 (that was the first full year of this blog). Any idea who he is?

Ken Temple said...

No, except for reading his blog articles and his comments here in the com-boxes.
I was impressed with what he wrote at the time - it is an eight part article response to Catholic Nick's critique of Imputation and relation to justification by faith alone.

I had forgotten about his articles on imputation about 3-4 years ago. (?) I was reminded again a few days about them when on another forum the issue of imputation of Christ's righteousness was brought up by another Roman Catholic.

James Swan said...

Hi Ken: People have come and gone on this blog over the years... while many of the anonymous comments are troll-like, every so often a "TurretinFan" or someone similarly anonymous shows up and makes some great comments or has a helpful blog entry. Perhaps "Joey Henry" will reemerge now that you've placed a small spotlight on him.

Jesse said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PeaceByJesus said...

I recall responding to some sophistry by Devil Rose being posted on FR a few years ago. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3252810/posts?page=151#151 for what it's worth.

Anonymous said...

In my study on this topic of imputed righteousness, the Greek term “logizomai” is the English term for “reckon/impute/credit/etc,” (all terms are basically equivalently used) and when I look up that term in a popular lexicon here is what it is defined as:

—————-

QUOTE: “This word deals with reality. If I “logizomai” or reckon that my bank book has $25 in it, it has $25 in it. Otherwise I am deceiving myself. This word refers to facts not suppositions.”

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/r92dch

—————-

The lexicon states this term first and foremost refers to the actual status of something. So if Abraham’s faith is “logizomai as righteousness,” it must be an actually righteous act of faith, otherwise (as the Lexicon says) “I am deceiving myself.” This seems to rule out any notion of an alien righteousness, and instead points to a local/inherent righteousness.

The Lexicon gives other examples where “logizomai” appears, here are some examples:

——————-

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude [logizomai] that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted [logizomai] as a gift but as his due.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon [logizomai] ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:18 For I reckon [logizomai] that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

——————-

Notice in these examples that “logizomai” means to consider the actual truth of an object. In 3:28 Paul ‘reckons’ faith saves while the Law does not, this is a fact, the Law never saves. In 4:4 the worker’s wages are ‘reckoned’ as a debt because the boss is in debt to the worker, not giving a gift to him. In 6:11 the Christian is ‘reckoned’ dead to sin because he is in fact dead to sin. In 8:18 Paul ‘reckons’ the present sufferings as having no comparison to Heavenly glory, and that is true because nothing compares to Heavenly glory.

To use logizomai in the “alien status” way would mean in: (1) 3:28 faith doesn’t really save apart from works, but we are going to go ahead and say it does; (2) 4:4 the boss gives payment to the worker as a gift rather than obligation/debt; (3) 6:11 that we are not really dead to sin but are going to say we are; (4) 8:18 the present sufferings are comparable to Heaven’s glory.

This cannot be right.

So when the text plainly says “faith is logizomai as righteousness,” I must read that as ‘faith is reckoned as a truly righteous act’, and that is precisely how Paul explains that phrase in 4:18-22. That despite the doubts that could be raised in Abraham’s heart, his faith grew strong and convinced and “that is why his faith was credited as righteousness” (v4:22). This is also confirmed by noting the only other time “credited as righteousness” appears in Scripture, Psalm 106:30-31, where Phinehas’ righteous action was reckoned as such. This is confirmed even more when one compares another similar passage, Hebrews 11:4, where by faith Abel was commended as righteous.

Jesse said...

Mr. Anonymous,

I do not think that taking one Greek word which no doubt has a semantic range to the exclusion of context is good hermeneutics. These articles might be useful to you if you have an open mind:

https://rationalchristiandiscernment.blogspot.com/2018/03/critiquing-roman-catholic-doctrine-of.html

https://rationalchristiandiscernment.blogspot.com/2019/05/logizomai-and-instantaneous.html

I have examined several of Nick's fundamental soteriological presuppositions (there is more to come):

https://rationalchristiandiscernment.blogspot.com/search?q=catholic+nick

Psalm 106:30-31:

https://rationalchristiandiscernment.blogspot.com/2018/09/does-psalm-10630-31-nullify-faith-alone.html

Romans 3:27-28 clearly says faith alone...Romans 4:2-8 could not get any clearer...It is folks like yourself who turn these passages right on their heads and constantly rail against Protestants.