Wednesday, August 25, 2010

Um, really? (But let us pray.)

As sometimes happens, a discussion over a relatively minor matter was (most probably accidentally) expanded into a larger concern through a frank admission.

First of all, our co-blogger Ken let us know that:
David Waltz has not returned to Rome - but he is open to Bahai'ism -
see our discussion here at his website- especially in the comboxes.

http://articulifidei.blogspot.com/2010/07/seal-of-prophets-is-there.html

"Me: Yes, I remain open to the possibility that the Bahai Faith is true. . . . "
I actually missed that the first time around.  But it gets better.

David Waltz also said in a comment that Blogger apparently ate (since Blogger has been eating comments left and right today, unfortunately mostly to David's detriment): 
you and Rhology are ‘allowed’ a number of worldview and/or ecclesiastical changes in your respective journeys without the worry of derogatory comments being cast your way, but I, who have made fewer changes than either you or Rho, must constantly defend my spiritual journey

Me: 
Um, unthinking heathen -> atheist -> Christian is not very many changes. 1.5 or so. 

He continued:
If I apply your understanding of “change” I have made NONE—I am, and always have been, a Christian.

Me:  
1) No, you haven't always been. You were born an enemy of God.
2) You were once a Jehovah's Witness. Um, that's not Christian.
3) You were once a Roman Catholic. Not Christian either.
4) I have no idea whether you hold to the biblical Gospel, but my educated guess is that you do not.

So no, I'm sorry; your statement is false.
David: 
If JWs are not Christian, what are they? Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim…

So, in reality, though I had begun by thinking this was a relatively minor issue, it is of a much greater concern to all of us, for David, than I had originally thought.  While defending himself from the occasional questioning regarding his spiritual journey and instability, he has honestly and openly called Jehovah's Witness a Christian religion, and it has been revealed that he thinks Baha'i is a live option in the marketplace of ideas.  Let us indeed pray for David Waltz. 

11 comments:

John Bugay said...

Subscribing ...

Marie said...

Huh. I've never heard of David Waltz, but he sounds like one confused pup.

webulite.com said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Andrew said...

Unless, webulite, there were a manual telling us what did and did not constitute a "true Scotsman".

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

David Waltz is not stupid.

beowulf2k8 said...

Me: Um, unthinking heathen -> atheist -> Christian is not very many changes. 1.5 or so.

He continued: If I apply your understanding of 'change' I have made NONE—I am, and always have been, a Christian.


Is he referring to the difference between God in the OT and God in the NT when he refers to "your understanding of change"? Did you assert that God has not changed?

I mean, did you assert that going from commanding murder against every non-Jew to loving all mankind is not a change?

Or did you assert that going from commanding persecution of other religions (as in Deut 13) to commanding turning to the other cheek and nonviolence and making your people the persecutED rather than persecutORS (as you once had them be) is not a change?

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of God, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

Well if it isn't Windows XP oops CHI RHO showing his boredom by taking issue with a creature of God. With this man's personal journey and challenges!

Very blog worthy indeed! Rhology let us know when you find a symbol for your blog that doesn't revel in paganism but revels in the glory of Christ Jesus and than maybe people would take your antics a little more seriously.

The God you believe in could just as easy hang you out to dry due to your pride and arrogance/ whilst giving glory and eternal salvation to a man like David who doesn't admit that he has 'all the answers'.

Pride comes before the fall.

This Muslim prays the day you remove that atrocious Anti Christ symbol from your blog!

John Bugay said...

GV19: I think you are making a mistake here. Rhology's very name implies that he is a student: "ology"="study of".

And he is a student of what the two Greek letters indicate: Christ.

It is true, too, that when David Waltz suggests that, as a Jehovah's Witness, he was a Christian, he is incorrect in this. I don't know of any orthodox Christians who would admit that the JW religion is a Christian religion, for the simple fact that its Christology is deficient.

Alan correctly points all of this out.

[David] has honestly and openly called Jehovah's Witness a Christian religion, and it has been revealed that he thinks Baha'i is a live option in the marketplace of ideas.

No Christian from any Christian tradition (save those most liberal ones, which have frittered away any true meaning) considers these options to be truly "Christian."

Let us indeed pray for David Waltz.

I'm sure this was a sincere request.

Rhology said...

I don't mind GV19's speculation about my eternal state and psyche. He has no idea, doesn't know anythg about me, and any impartial observer has to know that he's just pulling stuff out of the air.

But as for:
The God you believe in could just as easy hang you out to dry due to your pride and arrogance

Not at all. I have great pride and arrogance, and yet all of the punishment for my pride and arrogance has been placed on Christ on the Cross, to the glory of God, so that I would not hung out to dry (which I very richly deserve) but rather adopted as God's Son.

And just for the record, it has never been my contention that David Waltz is stupid. He's just spiritually blind, and I wrote this post to encourage people to pray for David Waltz and to think more than twice before accepting any of his conclusions.

Peace,
Rhology

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

"Spiritually Blind" Not Necessarily Equal "Stupid."

Although there are some spiritually blind people who are also stupid.

Conversely, there are some stupid people who are not spiritually blind.

In which case I think it's better to be "stupid" than to be spiritually blind.

For example, let's say that I am a "stupid" Bible-Believing Follower of Jesus Christ. And I am compared to an utterly brilliant and widely acclaimed genius who's a staunch atheist or staunch Hindu or staunch Wiccan or staunch Buddhist.

Well, I'd rather be stupid and basking in the love of Christ on earth and in Heaven than to be smart and brilliant intellectually whilst suffering from spiritual blindness.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of God,

I accept my correction by both John Bugay and Rhology. When I am in the wrong I am in the wrong and need to come forth and admit it.

Your sincerity towards him is good, and I know that being a good guy or a great guy gets no one into heaven. That is an agreed upon point.

I just hope that we can all respect people's spiritual quest, just be careful in approach as that could be the very thing that pushes people away from what you invite them to.