Friday, August 20, 2010

Meet and Greet with John Bugay

James has asked those of us who are contributors here to provide a listing of our favorite posts, both here and at our other blogs. So I've taken the time to go through some of my older posts, and having done this for a while, I'm genuinely amazed at the volume of information that I've processed:

My favorite posts at Beggars All:

The See of Peter -- this contains, among other things, a list of links to some of the other posts on the early papacy.

The Birth of the Inquisition -- this link has other links to the selections from Paul Johnson's "History of Christianity".

The Roman Catholic Hermeneutic-- If you're going to interact with Roman Catholics on topics of history or doctrine or Scripture, it's absolutely essential to understand how that institution officially has handled information over the centuries.

The Integrity of the New Testament Canon -- Even though some New Testament writings are said to be pseudepigraphical (and that case is not proven), it is clear that many scholars consider all of the potentially pseudepigraphical works in the NT to be authentic, on a case-by-case basis, there is very good attestation for each of the individual books.

Christianity is Growing but Rome is Sinking -- Seminaries from WSC to Dallas to Covenant to Southern Baptist to RTS are really emphasizing both original languages and hermeneutics that work to combine the best of Systematic Theology, Biblical Theology, and Literary theory, along with a healthy respect for the (small-t) tradition of the church. These efforts are going to bear wonderful fruit.

The Bryan Cross Method Alert -- I'm convinced that Bryan's method of argumentation is inherently dishonest, and I say why here.

Why I Chose the "Reformation500" Theme -- It's going to be a tremendous opportunity to remember where we came from.

From Reformation500@WordPress.com

A Few Words About My Method

Thumbs up or thumbs down on Rome -- So frequently, the argument is, "Protestantism is lacking in "x"; therefore, Rome is infallible." But that is not the proper way to look at things.

The Unity of the Church -- There is only one church; this selection from A.A. Hodge is a brilliant description of it.

How Catholics Misuse Scripture:

Ratzinger's Dishonesty about Exegesis -- Ratzinger has deceived the reader in two ways here. He has posited a very tight little circle, in which the Roman Catholic Church’s “authority” is based not on argument, not on proof, but on assumptions. And his “bait and switch” upon the word exegesis – beginning to “examine” exegesis and then substituting his own, non-exegetical “controlling function” is fundamentally and extremely dishonest.

1 Tim 3:15: The pillar and ground of the truth -- For you Catholics, who are interested in claiming that Christ somehow supernaturally prevents the “teaching office” of the church from erring, stop and think about what that means for a moment. This verse doesn’t even say what you say it says, much less that it means what you say it means.

John 16:13: On being guided into all truth -- But what does this verse really say? What does it promise? I’ve consulted two commentaries on John, both D.A. Carson (1991) and Andreas Kostenberger (2004) for clarification.

The Real Body of Christ -- Those who want to suggest that “the Church” is somehow the “ongoing incarnation of Christ” ignore the fact that Christ ascended. Having “Christ everywhere” (whether in the Thomistic view of the “sacramental” presence of Christ in the Eucharist” or in some kind of “ongoing incarnation”) ignore, in Calvin’s words, his “specificity as a particular man. Christ everywhere really means that Jesus of Nazareth is nowhere.”

The Catholic Historical Method -- Aiden Nichols, “The Shape of Catholic Theology” (253) notes that for the last several hundred years, according to these popes, “the theologian’s highest task lies in proving the present teachings of the magisterium from the evidence of the ancient sources.”

The nonexistent early papacy

The Spice Woman and the Symmachan Forgeries -- It is no coincidence that the first systematic works of papal history appear at the very time the Roman church’s past was being reinvented for polemical purposes."

"One of the Greatest Hoaxes" -- A choice quote from Dr. Robert Reymond on the early papacy.

While History is Confirming Christ, It's Devastating to the Early Papacy -- Conservative Protestants have nothing to fear from a study of history. The same cannot be said of the history of the papacy. The more we know about it, the more its foundations crumble."

Newman's Historical Concession -- In formulating his famous "theory of development," Newman conceded many of the historical details that I've talked about here. Catholics love citing Newman, but some of them don't really know what he said.


Older things:

Why I am not a Roman Catholic -- Roman Catholicism is a false religion. It is headed by an imposter, a man who claims to be something he is not. The Pope is not the Vicar of Christ, he is not the head of the Christian Church, he is not a "Holy Father," and I owe him no fealty, honor, nor respect in the religious sense. Roman Catholicism is a man-made perversion of the truth.

My Main Thesis -- "The Roman Catholic Church is Not What it Says It Is." It claims a lot for itself. But these claims are boastful, false, and worse.

The Turning Point of Modern History -- Schaff's introduction to the history of the Reformation.

A Positive Vision -- there are many true Christians within that body, who are members of Christ in spite of Catholic teaching (certainly not because of it).

Ten theses for Protestant/Catholic dialogue -- from the Cambridge Declaration.

(I've gone through these links fairly carefully, but if you find something that's not working properly, please let me know.)

19 comments:

Rick said...

Proverbs 16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Matthew Bellisario said...

Ha ha! Is the epitomy of pride or what? Your favorite posts? Aren't they all your favorites? Ha ha.

Matthew Bellisario said...

I can't get over this meet and greet nonsense. Its like the poor fat kid coming home with chocolate milk dried on his face and his mom putting his crappy drawing up on the refrigerator.

John Bugay said...

"Meet and greet" is a time-honored tradition.

John Bugay said...

Rick, thanks for reminding us that the Roman Church has been a tremendous source of pride over the centuries. Such pride is an abomination to the Lord. Especially as the papacy "faithfully developed," this pride was evident for the world to see. As Eamon Duffy said, "Ambrose … had been brought up as a child in Pope Liberius' Rome. A sister had taken the veil as a nun from Liberius' hand in St. Peter's and the Pope was a familiar visitor to the house. Ambrose had been fascinated as the women of the family clustered around Liberius, kissing his hand, and the boy had amused and infuriated his relatives by imitating the Pope's stately walk and offering his own hand to be kissed by the womenfolk."

As it was, "the conversion of Constantine had propelled the bishops of Rome into the heart of the Roman establishment. Already powerful an influential men, they now became grandees on a par with the wealthiest senators in the city. Bishops all over the Roman world would now be expected to take on the role of judges, governors, great servants of state…

The popes were potentates, and began to behave like it. Damasus perfectly embodied this growing grandeur. An urbane career cleric like his predecessor Liberius, at home in the wealthy salons of the city, he was also a ruthless power-broker, and he did not hesitate to mobilize both the city police and the Christian mob to back up his rule. His election had been contested, and he had prevailed by sheer force of numbers -- as the
Liber Pontificalis put it, "they confirmed Damasus because he was the stronger and had the greater number of supporters; that was how Damasus was confirmed." Damasus' grass-roots supporters included squads of the notoriously hard-boiled Roman fossores, catacomb diggers, and they massacred 137 followers of rival Pope Ursinus in street-fighting that ended in a bloody siege of what is now the church of Santa Maria Maggiore. (36-38)

Rhology said...

Bummer. Bellicosario doesn't like our posts. John Bugay, I've cried my tears of rage and pain, and I've come out on the other side. With the help of Jesus (and a few shots of whiskey), you can too.

(And this reaction is totally predictable from our mean-spirited opponents. I'm surprised they restrained themselves this long.)

John Bugay said...

Rhology, all I can say is, we can console ourselves that NFL season is coming back into view :-)

Jae said...

Impressive lists and nice try!

For the info, there are more than 1.2 BILLION+ catholics around the world and growing and we've been here for 2,000 years the oldest living institution in the world, where everything and everyone else caved-in and crumbled to the ground especially those who would try and destroy her - like the Roman Empire, Barbarians under Attila, Mongols, Reformation to the modern day Communism - Soviet Union and also most if not all protestant churches who caved-in to secular forces of artificial contraception, gay-marriage, some forms of abortion, cloning etc and she will be the same long after we have all died and buried. You wonder why? it is because Jesus ABIDES IN HER and not man.

I don't deny that some forms of protestantism (excluding. mormons, unitarians etc) have some truths within but the promise of Christ to His church with his FULLNESS (ALL truth-Jn 16:13, Jn 14:17) is only found in His One true Church.

Matthew 13:13-32 "Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all your seeds, yet when it grows, it is the LARGEST OF THE GARDEN PLANTS and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and perch in its branches."

A clue!

John Bugay said...

Jae: there are more than 1.2 BILLION+ catholics around the world

In various discussions we've had here, it seems as if some 95% or more of that number exclude themselves through practices (such as birth control) that do not form with "Catholic teaching."

and we've been here for 2,000 years the oldest living institution in the world,

The one true church has been here for 2000 years; the Roman institutional mutation has been around for considerably less time. It is only that institution to which you can truly lay claim. For the rest of it, you must provide a careful accounting of how one thing became another, and that's the subject of all of my posts above.

Christ abides in "the one true church"; not in the Roman institution.

Your attempt to equate "the kingdom of heaven" with the Roman church fails on multiple levels, as I've demonstrated even in the posts above.

For someone who has a PhD, you've shown a remarkable lack of thought in this response, and a remarkable amount of parroting of cliche defenses of the Roman church.

Rhology said...

Notice how funny it is that when we Reformed people discuss apostatised churches, we frame the issue in terms of true Gospel vs false Gospel. Jae and many other RCs we've seen around here frame the issue in terms of whether you use a condom or not. The difference is stunning.

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

Hi John,

I appreciate you and I appreciate the love of Christ in you.

God bless you and your family always.

Pax in Christ alone.

John Bugay said...

Rhology -- The difference is stunning.

It's not hard to miss where the emphasis is -- Christ's grace and mercy, vs "what you gotta do to keep getting it."

John Bugay said...

Truth unites: Thanks for your encouragement. It means a great deal to me.

Jae said...

@Rhology, "we frame the issue in terms of true Gospel vs false Gospel"

Your version of the gospel? So now you are the man (Ecumenical council rolled into one, eh) to tell who is false and who is true?

hmmm.

Jae said...

@John, "The one true church has been here for 2000 years; the Roman institutional mutation has been around for considerably less time."

First, where are the written historical facts about the one true church for 2,000 years? (aside from Ecumenical Councils and patristic writings).

Secondly, your second sentence the question is, how "less" is in your version? The chronological history of the Catholic Church is very much integral to the whole Christian History and Western History. The "mutations" you wrote about is like the kingdom of Heaven coming from a "mustard seed" that Christ spoke and not about your assumptions which I think are just like that because they are not even supported by historical written facts and references. For Pete's sake even the Oxford Dictionary, Atlas of World History , Encyclopedia Brittannica doesn't agree with your "gaps" in the chronological history of the Catholic Church, the List of popes etc.

So why should anyone believe in hearsays or the "catholic scholar of the day?"

Ummmm.

John Bugay said...

Jae: First, where are the written historical facts about the one true church for 2,000 years? (aside from Ecumenical Councils and patristic writings).

Consider the New Testament. There are "historical facts about the one true church" here that deal with the beginning of the church, its structure, its beliefs. Roman Catholicism is not found there.

The chronological history of the Catholic Church is very much integral to the whole Christian History and Western History.

I wouldn't deny this. But it is not a badge of honor. It is a story of shame.

For Pete's sake even the Oxford Dictionary, Atlas of World History , Encyclopedia Brittannica doesn't agree with your "gaps" in the chronological history of the Catholic Church, the List of popes etc.

Give them time to catch up to the research. This, I'm sure, is not the hottest topic on their radar screen.

So why should anyone believe in hearsays or the "catholic scholar of the day?"

The weight of the evidence has forced even the Vatican to acknowledge "development" with respect to the early papacy, where it had once believed that "Clement commanded with all the authority of any modern pope" (according to Fortescue). Today that story is much, much more laid back and even resigned.

Rhology said...

The probability that Jae's "Phd" is in fact a false claim grows by the day. If you question how anyone can know the meaning of a text w/o applying that same question (and imagined defeater) to every single other text in existence including one's own and the Magisterium's even after being told at least 4 times, I seriously doubt you have enough intelligence to have an EARNED PhD. (A purchased one, well, that's another matter.)
(Or an honorary one - 0bama is -ahem- far from capably intelligent.)

Jae said...

@Rhology, I must admit I'm not in good command of the English language because it's not my primary language it's just my third...the first one is french, the second is Mathematics.

Oh, by the way your Ecumenical council that is Dr. James White got his Degree, Masters and PhD in the SAME "academic" institution.

Rhology said...

Jae,

Le fait que vous parlez mal l'anglais ne sert pas d'excuse pour vos mauvais arguments.

À propos de ça, je n'ai aucune idée de quoi vous parlez au sujet de James White. Il n'a pas de PhD (son doctorat est un ThD) et son MDiv est de Fuller alors que son Bachelors est d'autre institut. Veuillez confirmer vos informations avant de dire des bêtises. Merci!