Friday, May 15, 2009

Catholic Answers Update

I'm still at it over on the Catholic Answers forums, so I haven't had a chance to post much this week over here. The discussion is found here. I didn't get in to it until many pages in. That being said, there's probably much better stuff to be reading than trudging through a long discussion thread. In fact, my time in this discussion is almost over, as I have to concentrate on putting material together for other projects. Of course, it will probably be claimed I ran away, or something like that, but you'll notice I've been answering his every line thus far.

Here though, is a recent snippet:

Originally Posted by raumzeitmc2:Now you speak of the "proclamation of the gospel, and dedication to the authority of the Scriptures." Well, just what is the "gospel" in your opinion?

In Biblical terms,

"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something of which to boast, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

In other words, Christ has paid the penalty for my sin, I do not need an indulgence. My righteousness is the perfect righteousness of Christ, given to me as a gift. My perfect works are Christ’s works, given to me as a gift.

Originally Posted by raumzeitmc2: you really haven't told me what the gospel is yet. So let rephrase the question: We know that Christ preached the gospel, so what then was it that he preached? What was the essence of his message, his gospel?

Your question demonstrates a fundamental distinction between us. The Gospel is more than the words of Christ in red lettering. The Bible was written by the Holy Spirit. In its entirety it is God's infallible word and proclamation of Christ. Christ in fact notes the entire Old Testament was about Him. So, when I approach the question of how one is made right with God, I go to that part of the Bible that addresses that issue. The Holy Spirit has given the church the book of Romans as a systematic treatment of how one is made right with God. The words of Jesus aren't somehow more important than the words of Paul: both are the word of God, the word of the Holy Spirit. If Christ had given a detailed explanation of justification and sanctification, I would turn to those passages, but he did not. The Holy Spirit used Paul to do this, and Paul's words and the red words of Jesus are in harmony, because both are God's word.


bkaycee said...

In this Catholic answers discussion, the stalker, TertiumKid, tells us what the gospel is according to Rome.

"lol, Ok, let me give a quick cliff notes version of what the Catholic gospel is.;&version=31;

"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before [a] me. "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments. "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you. "You shall not murder. "You shall not commit adultery. "You shall not steal. "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
Recapitualed by Christ in
Matt 5
Matt 6
Matt 7"

Jesus came to give us the Law?

EBW said...

You answer the first question w/biblical terms and "other words". Do these other words bind
your (or others) conscience ? Are they supplementary, authoritative,infallible in articulating the "gospel". At least inerrant?
So many other words not found in the text are used to highlight these biblical terms. Please try not to see this objection as unfair or pedantic, b/c you did wish to answer the "gospel" question w/ biblical AND other words.
Christ (works)
perfect works