Friday, July 11, 2008

The Roman Plan of Salvation

I know that johnMark has already posted this a while back, but it's due for a repost. Or a riposte.

To me it seems to explain really well, but I'd be interested to know what our Romanist friends think of it.

(Click to expand)



Mike Jones said...

That is quite the chart.

Patton over at Reclaiming the Mind would be proud.

Ben Douglass said...

(1) Why is final perseverance after death and purgatory? Final perseverance just means perseverance until death.

(2) The chart fails to recognize that God can justify apart from the Sacraments of Baptism and Penance.

(3) The chart should include repentance with faith and good works among the things leading an adult to justification.

(4) Step 8 is incomplete. It is true that the justified grow in justification through sacramental and merited grace. God is also free to give them completely unmerited grace, outside of the sacraments.

(5) The chart fails to recognize the necessity of grace in moving the fallen Christian to repentance.

Ben Douglass said...

(6) I don't see "prayer" anywhere on the chart. Prayer should feature prominently in the process leading an adult to justification and in the process of sanctification (increasing justification).

Mike Jones said...

"(5) The chart fails to recognize the necessity of grace in moving the fallen Christian to repentance."

I'm genuinely curious: Does the Romanist hold that man has libertarian free will or not? Is the grace sufficient to move a person to repentance on its own? Or it is a necessary but not sufficient factor?

Ben Douglass said...

Rome is not a monolith on this subject. Within Catholic theology, there are several schools of thought concerning grace, predestination, and free will: Molinism, Thomism, Scotism, Congruism, etc.

I am a Thomist. I believe that grace is sufficient of itself. It possesses an intrinsic and infallible efficacy to determine the will to perform this or that determinate good act, such as repentance. Grace's efficacy is not determined by the cooperation of the will; on the contrary it infallibly produces the cooperation of the will. Another Catholic might give you a different answer.

Sorry, at my present state of studies I do not feel qualified to answer your question about the nature of human free will.

kmerian said...

Some problems, it seems to be trying to classify Catholic beliefs using Protestant terms. Catholics are not constantly gaining, losing, gaining salvation as the chart implies. Catholics believe that is judgment made at the moment of death. Also, there is no such thing as "dejustification" or "rejustification".

All in all, a very poor attempt at showing Catholic beliefs.

Carrie said...

Here is a similar chart posted by a Catholic:

Catholic Flow Chart

Anonymous said...

These charts hurt my head!

Lots and lots of mention of Christ and his work on the Cross

So, I must assume that the RCC's view is that Christ is not relevant and certainly not active in salvation.....maybe to "assist" from time to time with a small (but temporary) shot of grace if your actions merit it

Sorry looks like total work righteousness to me.....

Man = Active party
God = Inactive party

So Faith + Works basically just comes down to Works according to RCC practice ("tradition")