Sunday, January 20, 2008

Trent's Underwhelming Canon Vote, part 2


A few weeks ago I posted on the Underwhelming Vote of Trent based on a quote from Metzger. I have been meaning to expand on this topic based on details from the Catholic historian Hubert Jedin, but have been short on time. A recent post by Dr. White gave me the necessary kick in the pants.

The Metzger quote seems to imply that the vote at Trent on the biblical canon occurred on April 8th, 1546 when in reality the vote (24 yea, 15 nay, 16 abstain) took place on February 15th. The final decree on Scripture and Tradition (which included the canon list) was given on April 8th. Metzger actually cites Jedin’s History of the Council of Trent which supplies the necessary detail, so I believe his wording was intended to summarize the overall process (rather than being inaccurate).

I will be citing here (and in future posts) extensively from Jedin’s History of the Council of Trent. Jedin’s work on the Council of the Trent is probably the most extensive and objective documentation available and provides the necessary insight that the Concilium Tridentinum lacks for the general reader. To understand the significance of this discussion it is important to remember the Roman Catholic apologetic claim that the canon ratified at Trent was the same canon taught throughout history. If true, we would expect the canon discussions at Trent to be essentially a "no-brainer".

With regards to the “underwhelming vote”, Jedin says:

“The discussion of the canon of Scripture, which began in the general congregations of 12 and 15 February, showed that there was unanimous desire to take up the canon of Holy Scripture within the limits within which the decree of the Council of Florence of 4 February 1441 for the reunion of the Jacobites, had circumscribed it. Two questions were to be debated, namely, should this conciliar decision be simply taken over, without previous discussion of the subject, as the jurists Del Monte and Pacheco opined, or should the arguments recently advanced against the canonicity of certain books of the Sacred Scriptures be examined and refuted by the Council, as the other two legates, with Madruzzo and the Bishop of Fano, desired? The second question was closely linked with the first, namely should the Council meet the difficulties raised both in former times and more recently, by distinguishing different degrees of authority within the canon?

With regard to the first question the legates themselves were not of one mind. In the general congregation of 12 February, Del Monte, taking the standpoint of formal Canon Law, declared that the Florentine canon, since it was a decision of a General Council, must be accepted without discussion. On the other hand Cervini and Pole, supported by Madruzzo and a number of prelates familiar with the writings of the reformers and the humanists, urged the necessity of countering in advance the attacks that were to be expected from the Protestants by consolidating their own position, and of providing their own theologians with weapons for the defence of the decree as well as for the instruction of the faithful. However, their efforts were in vain; in fact Pacheco, who shared DeI Monte's view, proposed in the general congregation of 15 February to prevent any future discussions whether this or that book was part of the canon by adding an anathema to the decree, that is, by declaring it article of faith. The discussion was so obstinate that there remained no other means to ascertain the opinion of the Council than to put the matter to the vote. The result was that twenty-four prelates were found to be on Del Monte's side, and fifteen (sixteen) on the other. The decision to accept the Florentine canon simpliciter, that is, without further discussion, and as an article of faith, already contained the answer to the second question.” (History of the Council of Trent, pg 55-56)

As Jedin states later on pg 57:

“The result of the above-mentioned vote of the general congregation of 15 February committed the Council to the wider canon…”

Hence, the final decree of April 8th, which defined the books of the canon, was decided by the earlier vote to accept the Florentine canon as an article of faith. The unanimous vote on the final decree many weeks after the first vote on February 15th (and after much discussion) does not negate the difficulties seen with that first vote. In fact, considering that the underwhelming vote of February 15th centered around accepting a canon already defined by a prior council and yet there was still dissension, clearly shows there was much confusion about the exact nature of the canon. Again, if the biblical canon of the Church was a consistent teaching throughout history, further affirmed by a decree at Florence, why the confusion?

The RC claim that "to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant" continues to not hold water. It was not until April 8th, 1546 that the Church "put a full stop to the thousand-year-old development of the biblical canon" (Jedin, pg. 91). However, the discussions that occurred before and after the vote (and their implications) are what I find the most interesting. In the interest of time and length of this post, I will take that topic up in a future post.

16 comments:

Peter Sean Bradley said...

Carrie,

Please go back and read your source with more care.

Jedin is saying that all parties agreed that the deuterocanonical books were going to be ratified as part of the canon. The question was whether the canon defined in the Council of Florence was to be "taken over" by a simple declaration (with an anathema) or whether the Council would do more and provide an explanation for why the deuterocanonicals were part of canon.

You can see this in the passage you extracted wich describes the proposal of the losing side:

On the other hand Cervini and Pole, supported by Madruzzo and a number of prelates familiar with the writings of the reformers and the humanists, urged the necessity of countering in advance the attacks that were to be expected from the Protestants by consolidating their own position, and of providing their own theologians with weapons for the defence of the decree as well as for the instruction of the faithful.

The losers weren't siding with Protestants: they wanted to go on the offensive!

So, thank you for your post. You've convinced me that Gary Michuta was correct in arguing that the 44% vote was whether there should be an anathema attached to the Tridentine canon.

Bill Cork said...

Hi Peter,

I think you're both wrong. :-)

The one group says they should accept the Florentine canon as is, without debate or discussion, because it is the decision of a church council. Period.

The other group says we can't just argue on the basis of authority. It says they were familiar with the writings of the Reformers, and wanted to give theologians answers to their questions and arguments. Let's show them why we believe what we do; why do we hold it. Let's give evidence, and show that we can respond to their challenges.

But the winning side refused. They said, in effect, the Catholic position must be, "Church said it, I believe it, that settles it."

Peter Sean Bradley said...

Bill,

I think you are right (but I also think that's what I said, albeit I think you said it better. :-) )

The losing side accepted the Florentine canon but wanted to offer arguments for that canon. The winning side was of the "what we say ought to be good enough and we weaken our position by engaging in discussion" school of thought.

You see that kind of dynamic all the time.

A weak parallel would be to the American abortion debate by pro-aborts. Some pro-aborts want Roe to be unquestionable; others are willing to put it up to public debate, but they are all still pro-aborts with a confident belief in the correctness of their position.

Peter Sean Bradley said...

For what it's worth, I think that the losing side may have been more right - based on my general philosophical attitude - that doesn't mean that I didn't believe that the deuterocanonicals weren't canonical.

(On the other hand, sometimes it is necessary to simply assert authority in order to inspire confidence in the rank and file. As Don Juan said on the morning of Lepanto: "Gentlemen, the time for debate is over; now is the time for battle."

Debating the deuterocanonicals might have undercut the charismatic appeal of the Counter-Reformation. But those are among the many imponderables of counter-factual history.)

Peter Sean Bradley said...

By the way, Bill, I'm sure you can appreciate the irony that one of the leading dissident Episcopalian dioceses is in Fresno (and Fresno is the site of the St. Luke's decision that allowed the local Methodist church to split the United Methodist Church with property and all, as you recall.)

One of the leaders of the Episcopalian diocese is in my Rotary club.

Small world. It has me thinking about Providence and how many things that look coincidental, really are not.

Carrie said...

Two questions were being debated:

1. "should this conciliar decision be simply taken over, without previous discussion of the subject,"

2. "should the arguments recently advanced against the canonicity of certain books of the Sacred Scriptures be examined and refuted by the Council,"

The result: "The decision to accept the Florentine canon simpliciter, that is, without further discussion, and as an article of faith, already contained the answer to the second question." It appears that the dissenting voters want to discuss the canon rather than just accept the books put forth by the Florentine decree. Countering the attacks of Prots was question #2.

I think the nuances of this discussion will become more clear as I do more posts.

Jedin is saying that all parties agreed that the deuterocanonical books were going to be ratified as part of the canon.

Not necessarily: "showed that there was unanimous desire to take up the canon of Holy Scripture within the limits within which the decree of the Council of Florence".

The fact is, there were many implications rolled up into this decision to accept the Florentine canon, without discussion, and as an article of faith (anathema). We cannot know exactly why 15 members voted nay and 16 abstained from voting. As I said, if the Florentine canon as it stood was a no-brainer, I would have expected a better majority.

Carrie said...

PSB & Bill,

I have added back a sentence to the large Jedin quote which I originally left out to save myself some typing (I only have this partially OCR'd), perhaps this will clarify the "second question" (end of first paragraph):

"The second question was closely linked with the first, namely should the Council meet the
difficulties raised both in former times and more recently, by distinguishing different degrees of authority within the canon?"


James' has covered some of this discussion previously at the Aomin blog. I think some of your disagreement is misunderstanding my use of "the exact nature of the canon".

Peter Sean Bradley said...

Carrie,

Please post the balance of what you think supports your position.

As it stands right now, the excerpted language supports Gary Michuta's construction of the vote.

As say this, incidentally, as an attorney who is accustomed to reading decisions with multiple premises for decision and where a decision can differ on procedural rather than substantive grounds. The latter is what Jedin is describing.

Kepha said...

Peter,

Just out of curiosity, have you read Jedin's book?

Peter Sean Bradley said...

Kepha,

No, I have not.

That's why I invited Carrie to provide some portion of Jedin's book that supports the claim that there was a substantial number of Catholics at Trent who thought the canonical status of the deuterocanonical books was debatable.

The portion cited doesn't support that claim.

Carrie said...

Please post the balance of what you think supports your position.

I will get to it when I get to it.

That's why I invited Carrie to provide some portion of Jedin's book that supports the claim that there was a substantial number of Catholics at Trent who thought the canonical status of the deuterocanonical books was debatable.

I don't think you are following my argument. The Aomin post from James which I pointed you to already outlines that a minority of the council members were on Seripando's side to distinguish a two-fold canon.

I don't believe what I have posted here supports Michuta's claim as he has portrayed it. To say that the first vote was on the anathema and the later vote was unanimous is leaving out alot of detail. A vote on the anathema has implications, do you think they were simply voting on the best spelling of "anathema"?

There is a lot more detail on this subject. The discussions around the canon were also intertwined with discussions around Tradition as the final decree dealt with both Scripture and Tradition. In reading through Jedin's stuff it is clear to me that there was no consensus on either the canon or the makeup of tradition - these were open-ended ideas up to that point. The ideas of the Reformers prior to Trent were not simply in opposition to firm Catholic teachings as the teachings were not firm in the first place.

This is not the story told by Catholic e-pologists, and this is what I am trying to address. In the grand scheme of things, this particular vote is just one link in the chain.

William Tighe said...

Those interested in this subject might wish to read the article "The Old Testament: A Christian Canon" by Albert Sundberg, which appeared in 1968 in *Catholic Biblical Quarterly* (as well as his earlier article, "The Protestant Old Testament Canon: Should It Be Revised?* that appeared in that same publication in 1966). Sundberg -- a Methodist scholar who thought that there were absolutely no good historical grounds to support the Protestant OT Canon -- does show in his brief treatment of Trent in the article to which I referred that there were some at it who did wish to "reopen" the question and to make a Lutheran-like distinction between those books which could be used to "establish doctrine" and those other "agiographi" which were "good to read."

For me, this conmes as no surprise, given the esteem amounting almost to veneration in which the views of St. Jerome were held among "Erasmian" Catholics. It was St. Jerome's views, after all, which were adopted almost uncritically by Protestant Reformers (despite Luther's disdain for Jerome's general theological views) to justify their rejection of the deuterocanoncal books. Jerome held (a) that only those OT books written in Hebrew were inspired and (b) only those books that comprised the Jewish (and later Protestant) OT Canon had been written in Hebrew. Sundberg, in his book *The Old Testament Canon of the Early Church* (1964) demonstrates that (b) above is false and that (a) was an anachronistic criterion invented by Jerome himself.

It is worth mentioning, as well, that none of the Eastern Churches, Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox, accept the Jeromian/Jewish/Protestant OT Canon as well; if anything, most of them include in their OTs additional books beyond the Catholic deuterocanonical books.

Captain Kangaroo said...

As awas asked before: "What is this supposed to prove other than that the canon was neither self-evident nor self-authenticating?"

Carry on (or should that be Carie on?) in your posts undermining sola scriptura! You do a fine job. :-)

Theo said...

All:

Only a few short days ago, I believed I saw a turning point in this blog site both in the main commentary and among the combox participants that reflected a desire to turn from knee-jerk debating toward mutual scholarship and cooperation to discover the truth of the matter, especially for examining documentation and history.

The recent and continued use of pedantic and un-researched (at best) or deliberately misleading (at worst), main articles that upon contextual and doctrinal examination often reveal the opposite of some intended detraction, subsequently defended with flimsy and transparent polemic and inflammatory nonsense in disregard of stated clear doctrines, history and reason, coupled with some responses in kind, tell me otherwise.

I'm disappointed to see I was mistaken.

May we all find the model for our behavior and the cornerstone of truth we preach with a spirit of humble servitude that is our model made perfect in Christ crucified.

Keenly aware that my own heart is deceptively wicked save by the good grace of God, and with fear of Him who shall come to judge the living and the dead, I nevertheless remain your servant and brother in Christ,

--Theo

Kepha said...

Theo,

Have you read Jedin's work, or any academic (i.e., recognized scholar) work on this issue? If not, then how in the world do you know what is or is not "pedantic and un-researched (at best) or deliberately misleading (at worst)" information on this issue?

Carrie said...

Theo,

If your comment was meant towards me, then you have missed your mark. No doubt I could do a better job if I spent 100% of my time researching all this stuff and following every lead that I come across. Unfortuantely, I actually have a life that is much more important than blogging.

My main answer to you, Theo, is get over yourself. This is a BLOG, not a scholarly, peer-reviewed, published book. If you think material that is presented that is inaccurate, go prove it. I am not here to spoon-feed you all information, I provide sources of interest and topics for discussion.

As usual with your comments you fail to recognize that YOU may actually be wrong. I understand that in your mind Holy Mother Church cannot err, but I don't share that sentiment, nor do most of our readers. I could even make a case that you are incapable of being objective on these issues b/c of your devotion to HMC, but hopefully you can see that yourself.

Now, since you have appointed yourself the blog-police, please meander over to Steve Ray's, Michuta's, Armstrong's, and all the other Catholic blogs that have gotten the facts wrong and give them the same speech. Your policing efforts may be better appreciated by your own brethern. And then please do us all a huge favor and start up your own blog so we can follow your example of well-researched, non-pedantic, solid, non-inflammatory and scholarly historical material. Make it a team blog and invite CK since he seems to be on the force also. Seriously, I am all for learning the truth about history (I have nothing to fear)and since you seem to have all the answers I can sit back, rest and learn at your feet.

*Now, I will apologize for my use of sarcasm, but I find it necessary here. I have very little patience for commenters like Theo and CK who spend alot of time throwing stones and don't even run their own blogs. Just for the record, I am not really interested in further feedback from the blog-police, so unless you have an informational/historical tidbit to add to the combox, please keep it to yourself (or start your own blog).

Sidenote: Kepha, thanks for your support. I tried looking for your email addy a few weeks ago to tell you how much I enjoyed your commentary at Ref. Cath. concerning the cult of Mary. Your comments were spot-on!

I am shutting these comments down as I don't have time to police the police today.