I noticed Paul Hoffer has been researching the Luther quote I'm looking for. He's also taken the effort to thank me for my research (in the style that only those dedicated to Catholic apologetics can). Earlier this week he speculated the quote was from a letter (as Steve Ray claims):
"I have found the same quote on French apologetics website pertaining to the writings of St. Francis de Sales. The Latin quote here is attributed to Luther as a "Letter Contra Zwingli and Oecolampadius." Thus, this quote perhaps could be found in one of St. de Sales' writings as well."
Well, I've already posted the de Sales quote, and it doesn't appear to be a letter de Sales mentions, but if Hoffer can produce this letter against Zwingli and Oecolampadius in Latin, French or Swahili, I'd like to see it. Hoffer then seems to have abandoned the french letter quest:
"The Luther quote that Mr. Swan attacks Mr. Ray for using may be found in St. Francis de Sales' "The Catholic Controversy, Part II, Article III, Chapter 1. You can read it in the 1989 TAN Book and Publishers ed. on page 155 in English. To make sure that this was not a mistranslation and knowing how Mr. Swan likes ad fontes research, I found de Sales work in the original French (not easy since the language has changed a bit in 500 years) and lo and behold, the quote can be found there, too, albeit only in Latin. The quote is attributed to Luther in a work titled "Contr. Zuing. et OEcol."
Well, so much for the French version of de Sales. Hoffer then states,
"One would think that someone would have noticed that the good saint was misquoting Luther in the last 500 years and make mention of it if that were actually the case. Of course, while Mr. Swan can speculate as to whether Catholic apologists should read Luther in German, one must wonder if Mr. Swan or Mr. White, for that matter since he has jumped on the Catholic-apologists-engage-in-shoddy-scholarship bandwagon, has read any of the works of de Sales, a Catholic Doctor of the Church and one the principal figures of the Counter-Reformation, in any language."
It is indeed possible for Luther to be misquoted by Catholic apologists for 500 years, or anyone for that matter. Now, lets stop all this and work together to help Mr. Ray regain credibility for his research. Mr. Hoffer doesn't have to write me a 60 page response, or create 60 pages of attack and insult. I simply want a context for a quote. If after producing the context, he feels compelled to write 60 pages about this, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
In case this wasn't clear enough, it's a context I'm looking for. Maybe I'm wrong about this quote. That would be fine. The only way to find out is by getting a context. Just think of the party that could be had by proving Steve Ray's quote was accurate, and think of how many new insults and attacks can be made about me as well. That should motivate Mr. Hoffer to continue his research on this.
Update: Mr. Ray and Paul Hoffer may be joining forces:
"Paul Hoffer. Can you get in touch with me? My email is firstname.lastname@example.org. I'd like to make your acquaintance. Steve Ray Homepage 12.19.07 - 10:23 am # "
I wish them all the best!