Saturday, May 26, 2007

Some of you know I get the Fatima Crusader delivered to my home. It's the work of Father Gruner. Over on Catholic apologist Jimmy Akin's blog, he has an entry about the alleged fourth secret of Fatima. According to Akin's entry, there is no fourth secret, because the Vatican say's there is no fourth secret. I really don't have a dog in this fight, but I simply wonder if this is an infallible declaration, or if it's not (I'm assuming it is not). In other words, how do Catholics really know with certainty there is no fourth secret?


Richard Froggatt said...

Who cares?

You should stop using rubber nails.

James Swan said...


I always find it interesting how certainy claims work in practice. In other words, Akin says, "Either B16 is a liar or not. I know where my money is."

I'm simply asking Catholics to let me know if this is something certain, or not.

Richard Froggatt said...


I understand what you're asking. But your question doesn't hit home.

To quote then Cardinal Ratzinger speaking of private revelation "It is a help which is offered, but which one is not obliged to use."

We need only be certain (concerning revelation) of God's definitive revelation given in the Old and New Testaments.

It seems to me that the certainty issues that you want to raise differ from what you are here advancing.

The certainty issues (from what I've seen) between Protestants and Catholics have to do with authority.

For example: I as a Christian must believe in one God and in his son Jesus Christ. I must believe that the son is God from God.

IOW I don't have an option to be Arian. Not just because this is what the scriptures teach [starting at the beginning of faith there are so many voices regarding this subject (and any other religious subject)that when searching for an answer it's like searching for a needle in a haystack]but because the Church has authoritatively defined this.

But, to answer your question; no it's not certain. But neither is tomorrow (for me), but I'm still going to set my alarm and I'm still going to trust that the holy Spirit guides the Church (and that a Catholic can be certain of) according to the scriptures.

Gojira said...

Hi Richard,

If I may, you write:
"To quote then Cardinal Ratzinger speaking of private revelation "It is a help which is offered, but which one is not obliged to use."

I am seeing this as somewhat double speak. If the Fatima apparition is merely private revelation, then nothing "Mary" said there is to be considered binding on anyone. However, can you show from the messages given at Fatima that "Mary" intended for that option? She demands reparation be made to her, for instance. For peace, she wanted the consecration of Russia. Was "Mary" aware that due to private revelation, it didn't really matter if her words were heeded or not?