Friday, May 19, 2006


Even I get caught up in stories of defections.

Over on a Lutheran discussion board, a guy announced he was "defecting back to Calvinism". You can read it here:

These are always interesting to read. I could probably post a Lutheran response:

"You mean, you're going to embrace a false view of the Eucharist?" "You're going to embrace the heresy of limited atonement?"

These seem to be the issues that Lutherans dwell on. In the first, Calvinists and Lutherans should at least agree to disagree. In the second, Lutherans should at least read up on the Reformed perspective on limited atonment before speaking about it negatively. In other words, go out and get a few books from actual Reformed authors. Read their points and be prepared to know what you're talking about.


centuri0n said...

WHAT?! Read someting other than a BLOG!??!

Dude: THAT is heresy.

Gavin said...

Ah, defecting, there's the word for it. As I've told people, you can't call a inter-denominational change so much of a conversion, but it's hard to have a good word for it!

I've had a bit of dealings with Lutherans, they're an interesting bunch, like the Catholics. My observation of them, as you've said, is they're very poorly educated as to Reformdom. Pretty much they see us as Arminians (I refer to them as 4-point Arminians...) just like any other evangelicals with irreverent worship, grape juice and crackers, and the works. I mentioned to the pastor of one Lutheran (M-S) church I subbed at that I was Christian Reformed, his response was "oh. So you're not used to hymns and liturgy, are you?" The lack of respect they have for our tradition is astounding, even within the more normal churches like the LCMS. It disappoints me that there's so few Reformed resources for answering Lutheran charges at us, when we are so often attacked by them. I guess part of my animosity towards them stems from having a Lutheran girlfriend who's the daughter of a pastor ;) Admittedly, I did buy her RC Sproul's "What is Reformed Theology?" and am not afraid to share my views on election or the Sacraments...

Speaking of which, I may at some point in the future post some stuff against the Lutheran doctrine of Presence on my blog, which for some reason doesn't show up in my profile. Now that classes are over, I have plenty of free time to write, it's just a matter of A) finding something to write about and B) getting past the intimidation of there being so many other fine blogs out there. The address is

Scott said...


Bite your tongue. We have nothing in common with Arminius or his theology. There are many of the major points that Lutherans and true Calvinists agree upon. We disagree not so much in what is used for the elements in communion but rather in the Real Presence of Christ in, with and under the Bread and Wine. We all agree that Baptism saves, but we disagree in the idea of being totally depraved. We see man as separated from God because of sin. Man can not seek God out, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we are totally depraved. If anything Calvin is much closer to Luther than Zwingli ever was. TO say that we totally disagree with Calvin is a false statement but to say that we have anything in common with Arminianism is an insult.


Scott said...

By the way, to publish anything against the real presence would be blasphemy on your part Gavin.