A very interesting discussion

A discussion between Pastor Saiko Woods (Reformed) and Fredrick Price, Jr. (Word of Faith - Name it Claim it Prosperity Health and Wealth Heresy)  I am grateful for Pastor Saiko Woods diligence and character in seeking to have a respectful discussion with a Word of Faith teacher.  Fred Price, Jr. is to be commended in at least being willing to discuss the issues.

Fredrick Price Jr., son of Fredrick Price, Sr., is the first Word of Faith/ Name it claim it teacher that I have seen who was willing to sit down and discuss theological issues with a Reformed pastor, or even another Evangelical who is not Reformed, but stands against the Word of Faith as a heresy.

I made a few comments:  (I have made a few changes; but not much.)

"Excellent Pastor Saiko - I really enjoyed watching and listening to that entire discussion you had with Fred Price, Jr.

One suggestion - I think at one point Fred Price, Jr. thought you were saying when we are dead in sin before regeneration, that we have no will at all. Reformed theology does not teach that the unregenerate man has no will at all; only that the will is so damaged that it is not able to choose good over evil, & we cannot repent and believe unless God awakens us first.

To help Arminians and folks like F.P, jr. understanding what we mean when we say, God "ordains sin" means - it means that God decided before to allow sin to happen; but God did not do the sin. That helped me.

The Westminster Confession of Faith, chapter 3, verse 1, “Of God’s Eternal Decree”

"God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."

Westminster Confession of Faith, chapter 3, verse 1; and London Baptist 1689 Confession of Faith, chapter 3, verse 1.

Fred Price, Sr. made some very disturbing statements in the past - that the Holy Spirit does not want to live in a body with damaged limbs (Quadriplegics) and blindness of the eyes. (Is God glorified through sickness? - audiotape FP605 - quoted in Hank Hanegraaff's Christianity in Crisis, p. 260. He also said a lot of other disturbing things, but that one is the one I think is the most outrageous and cruel."
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I do personally think that many, if not all, of the Word of Faith teachers are heretics and they seem to me to be in it just to make money - it seems motivated by greed - like Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, and those like them seem to be operating from that kind of motivation.   But there does seem to be some Christians who go to these types of churches, but are sincerely unaware that this teaching is heresy.    Then there are many others, who because they want their desires fulfilled, that keep these heretics going by giving to them and listening to them.  2 Timothy 4:3  The false teachers will be judged. (James 3)  But many of the people who keep them going have a part to play in the spread and prevalence of these heresies.  

I saw this by Pastor Saiko Woods tweeting to Dr. James White and asking for his opinion.  This subject is very interesting to me, because I think the Word of Faith movement is one of the most damaging movements within Christianity that is around in recent years.  These heresies and greed and goofiness are being promoted overseas now and being translated into Arabic, Turkish and Farsi and beamed into the Muslim world.  It is very damaging to the believers in Iran, and very confusing to them; and a bad witness to real Muslims.

Because of these heresies and obvious greed, and goofiness, the name of God is being blasphemed among the unbelievers. See Romans 2:24; 2 Samuel 12:14; Isaiah 52:5. 

Addendum:
Early in the discussion, Pastor Saiko Woods mentions this disturbing thing that Leroy Thompson and Creflo Dollar did a while back.  Heresy, goofiness, greed, and sin. 

The Disturbing Greed of the Health and Wealth Heresy

Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Radio is right, this is probably one of the most disturbing things yet from the heretical and greedy Health and Wealth Teachers,(also known as "The Word of Faith Movement", the "Prosperity Gospel", "Name it Claim it' or "positive confession" teaching) In this video, false teachers Leroy Thompson and Creflo Dollar walk and run over the money that people put on the altar and think they can anoint the money with their feet! This video does not show how Leroy Thompson manipulated the people into giving and putting the money on the steps - I saw it months ago, but that video has been removed from You Tube. It seems they are embarrassed by it. It showed Leroy Thompson leading the audience in a claiming exercise by saying (shouting) several times that "money is coming to me" and pulling their greedy hands and arms into themselves, (how selfish! James 4:3-4 condemns this) - by giving to the heretics' "ministry", or tithing to this so called "church", these preachers manipulate people to give by promising them that God will give them 100 fold in return. Later, when it doesn't happen, and people question them, they say, "you don't' have enough faith". They learned the false teaching and manipulation tactics from other false teachers like Kenneth Copeland, the late Kenneth Hagin, and the late Oral Roberts. Other false teachers in this movement are Benny Hinn, Paula White, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, Jesse Duplantis, Eddie Long, T. D. Jakes, Paul and Jan Crouch of TBN, and many others.

Not only was that the goofiest, weirdest, nuttiest thing I have ever seen; it just oozes with greed and pride, which is part of what 2 Peter warns about in chapter 2.

"But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep." (2 Peter 2:1-3 NASB)


". . . Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties, whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord. But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children; forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet." (2 Peter 2:10-16)