Martin Luther Supported Gay Marriage?

I came across two interesting blog articles refuting the notion that "Martin Luther possibly equivocated on the sinfulness of homosexual behavior..."

Luther the Progressive? (Part 1)

Luther the Progressive? (Part 2)

I would have handled the source material differently. For instance, I would not have begun my defense of Luther by sourcing the Table Talk.  I also would have sourced the folks attempting to use Luther in support of homosexuality. Other than that, these entries are a nice topical treatment of Luther's words in regard to this issue.

The Dividing Line earlier today

Dr. James R. White discusses 4 different issues:
1. the Popes and the change of Roman Catholic Theology since Vatican 2; (Francis is different than Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger) But why didn't Benedict XVI (Ratzinger) say any of this while he was Pope? 

2. Rachel Held Evans and her liberalism and support for Trans-genderism;

3. a troubling article at Desiring God (by Nick Roen) about homosexuality and same sex desires (I also had trouble with this article when I read it; Dr. White nails the problems); (parts of the article by Roen are right; and it is no way like the Rachel Held Evans article; but it is troubling nonetheless. It needs to be re-written and clarified.)

4. the issue of "Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God" with Joseph Cumming and Nabeel Qureshi on Unbelievable Radio Program. 

Addendum:
From the article about Pope Benedict XVI, that Dr. White referenced:

Pope Benedict reminds us of the formerly indispensable Catholic conviction of the importance of the salvation of souls:“The missionaries of the 16th century were convinced that the unbaptized person is lost forever. After the [Second Vatican] Council, this conviction was definitely abandoned. The result was a two-sided, deep crisis. Without this attentiveness to the salvation, the faith loses its foundation.”He also speaks of a “profound evolution of dogma” with respect to the dogma that there is no salvation outside the Church. This purported change has led, in the Pope’s eyes, to a loss of the missionary zeal in the Church — “any motivation for a future missionary commitment was removed.”Pope Benedict asks this piercing question: “Why you should try to convince the people to accept the Christian faith when they can be saved even without it?” As to the other consequences of this new attitude in the Church, the Catholics themselves, in Benedict’s eyes, have become less attached to their faith: If there are those who can save their souls with other means, “why should the Christian be bound to the necessity of the Christian faith and its morality?” asks the Pope Emeritus. And he concludes: “But if faith and salvation are not any more interdependent, even faith becomes less motivating.”Benedict also refutes both the idea of the “anonymous Christian” as developed by Karl Rahner, as well as the indifferentist idea that all religions are equally valuable and helpful to attain eternal life.He says: “Even less acceptable is the solution proposed by the pluralistic theories of religion, for which all religions, each in its own way, would be ways of salvation and, in this sense, must be considered equivalent in their effects.”

Link to Rachel Held Evans article.

Link to the Desiring God by Nick Roen article that has many of us troubled.

In the section on Joseph Cumming vs. Nabeel Qureshi:
Who is Joseph Cumming?   (former missionary in North Africa and one of the founders of the Evangelical Yale Reconciliation Movement)  

2 of Denny Burk's excellent posts on the Supreme Court's bad decision today

Denny Burk:  "Today's Supreme Court decision was a moral and judicial travesty"

https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2015/06/26/a-moral-and-judicial-travesty/


Denny Burk:  "A Prophetic word 11 years ago from John Piper"
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2015/06/26/denny-burk-a-prophetic-word-from-11-years-ago-about-today-john-piper/

Hillary Clinton and the Supreme Court upcoming ruling on "same sex marriage" and the "Gay Agenda's" threat to Christian colleges and Universities and churches

Hillary Clinton said that deep seated religious beliefs have to be changed.

No Mrs. Clinton, you must repent of your sinful position.  Luke 13:1-5

She is saying this to her base, and showing them that she is against Christians who believe abortion is murder and evil, and that homosexuality and so called "same sex marriage" is wrong.

She seems to deliberately mix in things about women's rights in other countries with code speech for other issues she wants to change in the USA.  (abortion; homosexuality; so called "same sex marriage")

Her context talks a lot about other countries and the dangers to girls and women in other countries and cultures.  I wonder why she doesn't come out clearly and say anything about the fact that most of these problems and unjust treatment of women are in Muslim countries, which we have no authority to change their own laws and cultures.  We can agree that women suffer great injustices in Muslim countries, but liberals and leftists mix that in with abortion and homosexuality here in USA to try and bolster their base and sway the middle of the road voters.




I tried maybe 100 times, it seems, to embed the fox news video clip below, but I was unable to get it to work.  So be sure to go to click on it and watch it, if you have not seen this.

This report points out that the lawyer admitted to Justice Sam Alito that Christian colleges and Universities and organizations (and probably churches) are going to be hit with lawsuits and this will become a real issue if the Supreme Court rules that "same sex marriage" should be legal in all 50 states.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4220594877001/same-sex-marriage-case-raising-religious-liberty-concerns/?playlist_id=2114913880001#sp=show-clips

Piper's insightful analysis of the homosexual / "same sex marriage" issue

Two of John Piper's "Ask Pastor John" podcasts; one recent and one from 2013:

1.  What to say to a pastor who wants to officiate a "gay wedding".   (April 30, 2015)


http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/what-to-say-to-a-pastor-who-wants-to-officiate-a-gay-wedding

The same can be said of Transgenderism - it is a disorder in the soul and rebellion of the way God created the person.

excerpts:

"The emotional and physical sensations that we call same-sex attraction are disordered emotions and disordered sensations. And that disordering of the soul’s emotions and the body’s sensations are rooted in the fall of humanity into sin and, more specifically, they are rooted in the sin that is understood as exchanging God’s glory for images (Romans 1:23). So the exchange of woman as the glory of man for another man is a parable of the exchange of God for images like ourselves.
A person who experiences this disorder — this disordering of the emotions of the soul and the sensations of the body — may or may not himself exchange God for images. He may be a Christian. But the disordering he is experiencing is rooted in that original sin and in that ongoing human bent of soul that we all have, all of us.
The issue becomes: What do we do with the disordering effects of sin in our lives? I say our lives. And you will see why in a minute — John Piper’s life. The Bible says that if we embrace the disordering as good and normal and live our lives in accord with the disordered inclinations, then we will be living and affirming a parable of rebellion against God. And the Bible says those who live out that kind of rebellion do not enter the kingdom of heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9)."

Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral [that is fornication, because it is distinguished from the next two], nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9–10)
In other words, if you embrace and live out as normal and good any of these, you perish, because you are living a parable of rebellion.  . . . 

Officiating at a so-called same-sex “wedding” is the same as putting your blessing on the choice of two people to commit eternal suicide. The pastor is solemnizing and making official and blessing their choice not to enter the kingdom of heaven. . . . 

“American society is in the midst of a passionate pursuit of self-destruction.” 

"Now I would say that if a pastor asks his board if he can do that, he has given a signal that he is disqualified from his role of leading the sheep into the kingdom of heaven. And so he has put himself in a position of needing church discipline. And his board should follow the principles of Matthew 18 to seek his repentance as gently and patiently as they can. And then if he does not repent of his willingness to bless people’s eternal suicide and thus lead them out of the kingdom of heaven and into destruction, he should be dismissed as a false shepherd from both the pastorate and the church."
(John Piper; embolding and italics are my emphasis)

2.  Would you attend a "gay wedding"?   (October 10, 2013)

Listen to the voice of broken-ness and compassion, but holding firm to the truth of the Scriptures.  No Christian should attend a "gay wedding"; but we can still love our family members and friends who take this route, talk to them, share the gospel with them, have them over for a meal, etc.

Politicians need to listen to Piper on his issue.

http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/would-you-attend-a-gay-wedding

Denny Burk's excellent JETS article "On the Ethics of Sexual Attraction (Same-Sex and otherwise)"

Denny Burk's excellent JETS article "On the Ethics of Sexual Attraction (Same-Sex and otherwise)"

http://www.dennyburk.com/on-the-ethics-of-sexual-attraction-same-sex-and-otherwise/

I made a couple of comments in the com-boxes:

Denny,
Excellent article. Definitely needed and thorough. Unfortunately, 20 pages of in-depth analysis like yours will not be analyzed in the sound bite media and “yes or no” questioning of modern journalism.
The problem seems to me that the majority of our western culture, regular man on the street, and secular non-Christians, journalists, politicians, etc. do not consider any kind of thoughts, desires, fantasies, imaginations as sinful. We hear people say all the time, “nothing wrong with looking, as long as we don’t touch”, and phrases like “eye candy”, etc.
This kind of thinking goes against the Biblical analysis of the heart of human beings and the roots of sin – Genesis 6:5, Matthew 5:21-30; Mark 7:20-23; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 7:14-8:13; Colossians 3:5-10.
One thing I disagreed with though, is that you seemed to tie all the temptations of Jesus to His temptations in the sufferings and crucifixion (garden to cross ?) (page 103 – Hebrews 4:15 seen in the light of Hebrews 2:18, seems to overlook the 3 types of temptation in Matthew 4 and Luke 4. ) I agree that Jesus’ temptations did not include every single individual type of temptation that humans experience, but I do think that “tempted in every way” includes the 3 categories of temptations in Matthew 4 and Luke 4 – of “lust of the flesh” (food, sex, sleep, etc. – “turn the stones to bread”; 2. Lust of the eyes” – “I will give you all these kingdoms if You bow down to me” and 3. “the boastful pride of life” – “throw Yourself off the temple edge”, etc. (from Luke 4 and Matthew 4, and I John 2:15-16 and parallel with the temptation to Eve in Genesis 3 – “the fruit was good for food” (lust of flesh), “pleasing to the eyes”, and “could make one wise like God” (pride).

Denny,
Your analysis of “orientation” and “temptation” and desire and the Greek term epithumia was excellent and the whole discussion of the teleological aspect of when desires are sinful – the purpose and object of the desire as the key to determining the sinfulness of the desire.

Your analysis of James 1:13-14 with Matthew 5:28 is especially helpful.

The evidence of Augustine’s earlier thought on concupiscence and lust/desire vs. his later musings was helpful – I did not know that. Thank you for digging that out for us.
On page 104 – The discussion of the fact that it is more intense of a temptation to not give in to it – and the quote from Leon Morris was very good and needs to be emphasized. (and was very convicting, when thought about my own temptations and giving in to them.)
“This points us to the glorious irony of Jesus’ sinless nature. It did not lessen his experience of temptation but only intensified it.” (page 104)
Wow! This needs to be emphasized and preached on and talked about a lot more.
This should stir all of us to consider more deeply our sinful hearts in our gluttony, anger, greed, and heterosexual lust and need for deeper internal repentance.
These other two statements stood out to me:
“Temptation had no landing pad in Jesus’ heart nor did it have a launching pad from Jesus’ heart.” (page 105)
“This aspect of Jesus’ impeccability ought to invoke worship when we really think about it.” (page 107)
The discussion of not using “orientation” was needed also. We should call it “people who experience same sex attractions and temptations” and Christians who struggle with them.
Another thing that is missing is that some Lesbians have admitted that their Lesbianism was a choice based on other up-bringing and environmental factors and responses and her feisty nature and rebellion and challenge to traditional ideas of being a girl and a lady. Camille Paglia made that point very clear on one of Dennis Prager’s radio shows. see below:
https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2014/09/29/feminist-and-lesbian-camille-paglia-homosexuality-is-not-an-inborn-trait/

I also linked to Denny Burk's article at my other blog, Apologetics and Agape, along with the above article about Camille Paglia and also Dr. Michael Kruger's article  "What the Media is not telling you in the Judicial arguments in the same sex marriage case."

These two articles also deserve separate future blog posts.

Round-up of some recent videos and articles on the issues of homosexuality and so called "same sex marriage"

An Interview with Kevin DeYoung; and about his book and sermon on "What the Bible Teaches about Homosexuality"


"Top 10 Questions the Supreme Court Justices asked on the Constitutional right to "same sex marriage".

Number 2 was Justice Kennedy, who is the swing vote.
Justice Kennedy expressed concern about whether it was prudent for the Supreme Court to step in and change the definition of an institution that was as old, to use his language as “millennia.” In short, he asked whether it was is imprudent and unwise to suggest that the Supreme Court knows better than ancient history and its belief about marriage.

Denny Burk always has good articles on the issues of homosexuality, "same-sex marriage", transgenderism, etc.  (among other Biblical and cultural subjects)


Dr. James White's response to Dr. David Gushee, Part 1



A few points:
Matthew Vines, author of the book, "The Gay Christian", introduced Dr. Gushee.  See Dr. James White's response to Matthew Vines. "Gay Christianity Refuted".

Dr. Gushee is a professor of ethics, an ethicist at the liberal leaning, historically Baptist (but it formally cut ties with the Southern Baptist denomination in 2006)- Mercer University in Macon, Ga.

Dr. White made an excellent point that conservative Christians need to take time to listen to what those like Dr. Gushee are saying and be ready to respond with apologetic answers, with truth and love; and that those Christians who are just dismissing him, not listening, or calling people names; are not helping matters.

It is amazing that Dr. Gushee used Jeremiah chapter 1:17-19 as his text for his message, claiming that he is giving the "unpopular" message and that somehow Jeremiah and the Lord would agree with him.  The historical background and context of the book of Jeremiah, and the charges that Jeremiah brings against Judah and it's sins and corruption and apostasy - the breaking of God's law by the people of Judah and God's impending judgement by bringing the Babylonians to judge Judah and destroy the temple and take the people into exile; we know that Jeremiah would be on the side of those of us who continue to hold to Biblical and traditional marriage.  Indeed, the heart of the gay agenda is truly deceptive and self-deceptive. (Jeremiah 17:9)  How many passages in Jeremiah speak of the people of Judah forsaking the Lord, backsliding, apostasy, breaking God's law in idolatry, adultery, injustice, deception, murder, greed, etc (see Jeremiah 7:8-11; and also chapter 2-4)?  Jeremiah began his ministry during the time of king Josiah (Jeremiah 1:2), who led a revival, recovering God's law when the high priest, Hilkiah, Jeremiah's father (Jer. 1:1), found the book of the law in the temple, when repairing the temple.  (2 Kings 22:5-8)  The very same book of the law that has passages like Genesis chapters 1-2, chapter 19, and Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 in it!

Jeremiah even says that the people have become like Sodom and Gommorah in Jeremiah 23:14. (see also Jer. 49:18)  Obviously, Jeremiah himself would not agree with Dr. Gushee's twisting of his message from Jeremiah 1:17-19.

"Now, gird up your loins and arise, and speak to them all which I command you. Do not be dismayed before them, or I will dismay you before them.  Now behold, I have made you today as a fortified city and as a pillar of iron and as walls of bronze against the whole land, to the kings of Judah, to its princes, to its priests and to the people of the land.  They will fight against you, but they will not overcome you, for I am with you to deliver you,” declares the Lord."  Jeremiah 1:17-19

In Jeremiah 6:15 and 8:12 he says about the people in their sins, "did not even know how to blush" - they had no shame in their sins.  This reminds us of today's homosexual movement.

Dr. Gushee attempts to make a parallel of unjust treatment against homosexuals with the unjust treatment of Jews in church history; with the wrong interpretation of certain passages (Matthew 27:25; John 8:44; Acts 7:51-53) and treatment of Jewish people in Christian history, with the history of interpretation of texts about homosexuality and the harsh and contemptuous treatment of homosexuals in history - by the church.   It is true that some twisted those passages as meaning "all Jews", including future generations, but that was obviously wrong, because most of the Christians of the first century were Jews, the disciples and apostles were Jews, and Romans 9-11 shows that some Jews are still coming to Christ, and that many in the future will be turning to Christ.  Also, those passages do not condemn all Jews for what the Jewish leaders under Caiphas, Annas, and the Pharisees did to Jesus.  The parallel is not a good one, for the texts about homosexuality are about sinful behavior, not an ethnicity.

 I was surprised that Dr. Gushee did not also use 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 in his case.  It only means those specific Jews who persecuted the Messiah and who were persecuting the churches of the Thessalonians.   I remember years ago listening to a debate between Dr. Walter Martin, the original Bible Answer Man and author of The Kingdom of the Cults, vs. the famous atheist, Madalyn Murray O'Hair - where O'Hair said that those Bible texts should not even be mentioned and that when speaking of the crucifixion of Jesus, one should just say, "those guys" or "some people did it", after admitting that the texts don't say "all Jews".

Dr. White has pointed out many times, that not only are there the very clear texts against homosexual lusts and homosexual sex acts, but the Gay activists constantly call those "clobber texts" or "just a few scattered texts"; but they are missing the entire positive message of marriage all through Scripture of creation, marriage as between a man and a woman, passages in Proverbs 5 and the whole book of Song of Solomon, Jesus' quoting of Genesis 1 and 2, and . . . the image of the church as the bride of Christ and that there is only one bride and one Groom/husband - the 2 aspect of the gender binary.

One problem is that Dr. Gushee never even interacted with any of the positive Biblical texts on marriage (Genesis chapters 1-2, Matthew 19:4-6; Song of Solomon, Ephesians 5:21-33; 1 Corinthians 7, Colossians 3, Proverbs 5 . . .

The gender binary of 2 in marriage, between a man and a woman, is all throughout the Bible - man and woman, husband and wife, bride and groom, is seen and pictured in the church and God's love for His own people, His bridge, and the end of redemption history:

Revelation chapters 21-22 - "the heavenly Jerusalem, "like a bride who has made herself ready for her husband"

"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband."   Revelation 21:2 

"they will be His peoples" - Rev. 21:3  (there is a textual variant there, but peoples seems to me to the better reading - laoi - λαοὶ - and it goes with Revelation 5:9 better. 

“Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”  Revelation 21:9

"The Spirit and the bride say, "come!"  Revelation 22:17

At one point (might be in part 2, I am not taking the time right now to go back and find it), Gushee gives an illustration about the rights to get married, and it was interesting that he left out the "B" part of LGBT in his illustration, because for the "B" (Bisexuals) to have marriage rights according to their own desires and inherent attractions, they would have to be able to have the right to marry two other people, thus creating a "Three-some", not a couple.  Dr. White pointed this out and called it a "Thruple" (spelling ?) 

Dr. Gushee, not only did not engage in any of the positive marriage texts (see above) that marriage is between a man and woman, but also never engaged any of the key texts in exegesis, that are clearly against homosexual sex acts and also reveal that any kind of "same sex attraction" is a brokenness from God's original design.  

Genesis 19
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
Romans 1:18-28
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
1 Timothy 1:8-11

Conservative, Biblical Christians freely acknowledge that there are people who experience same sex attractions and desires and struggle with them.  We agree with Dr. Gushee that hatred and name calling and bullying is not right, and that is perhaps the big lesson that Christians have to learn today, for it seems that they current "Gay movement" and push for same-sex marriage has a lot of a spirit of revenge in it, like the incident several years ago, of homosexuals ganging up on a little old lady for expressing her views for Proposition 8 that marriage is only for a man and woman; 

for the wrongs that were done against people with these experiences.  (like the pressure put on the CEO, Brendan Eich, of Mozilla Firefox to resign, 

the pressure put on Louie Giglio to pull out of the Presidential prayer; 

and 

the suing and taking to court the bakers, 

photographers, 

and florists who only did not want to participate in "same sex marriage" ceremonies.) 

Dr. Gushee never differentiates between the Biblical view of sin, repentance, and issues of church discipline vs. unjust bullying and name-calling, but rather seems to lump it all together under "contempt for LGBT people"



Part 2 of Dr. White's Response to Dr. David Gushee:



One of the best points that Dr. White made in this section was when he asked Dr. Gushee, "Do you still believe in the Deity of Christ?"  "Didn't Christ know the hearts of man-kind?"  Dr. Gushee claims that 5% of the population is homosexual.  (a larger estimate than others make at around 2.5 to 3 %) "Didn't Christ know that there are 5% of people who are homosexual in orientation, that you claim?"  "At the feeding of the 5,000, that means that at least 250 men were there were homosexual?"  What about the women who were Lesbians?  "Why didn't Jesus, the God-man, say anything about them?"  Why didn't Jesus offer them any words of comfort or compassion?

Gushed talks about the percentages of homeless children and teenagers are LGBT, but he fails to mention that much of that was caused by other factors that usually cause the homelessness - drugs, rebellion, defiant behavior, stealing, etc.

Part 3 of Dr. White's Response to Dr. David Gushee:



Dr. White pointed out, in either in part 2 or 3, Dr. Gushee talks about Christians who just quote a passage out of Leviticus 18, yet they should be focusing on the passage that says "love your neighbor as yourself", seemingly not realizing that the passage that Jesus quoted several times about "love your neighbor as yourself" is originally from Leviticus 19:18 !!

Interesting that Dr. Gushee challenged the audience to:
1.  When this message of inclusion for LGBT in the church is resisted, you "double down".
2.  "Get out there" and spread this message and make your voice known.

However, when Dr. White challenged Dr. Gushee to debate, Dr. Gushee said that he did not have time to deal with him or others who want to challenge him.

Amazing!  What better way for Dr. Gushee to get his message out (Matthew Vine's also, who also told Dr. White that he would debate, but later backed out), than for them to have a fair and moderated debate vs. either Dr. White,

or Dr. Michael Brown, 

or Dr. Robert Gagnon?  

Dr. White rightly challenged Dr. Gushee again, and told him he is under moral obligation to debate the issue, given that he is an ethicist, and given the seriousness of his accusations against the church and accusing the church of the same sins against the LGBT people as was perpetrated against Jewish people by some Christians in history.

See also Dr. White's debate/dialogue with Justin Lee. 

and

debate vs. Barry Lynn

and

debate vs. John Shelby Spong

Getting a militant atheist-homosexual to think

Another "Finally!" - what Bible believing Christians already knew

Transgender-ism and getting a sex change operation is a mental disorder.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

HT:  Steve Hays - I saw this earlier at Triablogue. 

Steps on How to Accept Gay Marriage in a Church

I found this pro-gay marriage in the church article fascinating. It's from someone in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America(ELCA).


Herbert Chilstrom: Gay acceptance and churches Article by: HERBERT W. CHILSTROM Updated: August 3, 2013 - 4:48 PM


Despite the pope's warmhearted words, don't expect immediate change. Instead, be patient.

The pastoral, warmhearted response of Pope Francis to a reporter’s question about homosexual persons quickened many hearts. Was it a harbinger of change in the near future?

My experience tells me such hopes are unrealistic.

I became a Lutheran bishop in Minnesota in the mid-1970s. It wasn’t until then that I began to meet members of our Lutheran congregations who were gay and lesbian. Among them were graduates of our Lutheran colleges and children of some of our most prominent parish pastors.

They told their stories — tales of heartless rejection and accounts of persistent faith. I listened and asked questions.

It was a step.

It was a full two years before I wrote a pastoral letter to all of the more than 600 ordained ministers on our roster in Minnesota. I urged them to do as I had done, to get acquainted with gay and lesbian members of their churches and to give them pastoral care.

It was a step.

Over the next decade, I carved out time to study carefully the handful of Bible passages that refer to same-sex behavior. Eventually, I came to believe that all of them addressed homosexual abuse and rape. I had seen none of this among the growing number of homosexual Lutherans I had come to know firsthand.

It was a step.

In 1987, I was elected the first presiding bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), the fourth-largest Protestant denomination in the United States. By now the issue had bubbled up into a national crisis. Along with other denominations, the ELCA was seeking to develop a policy on gay ordination, gay marriage and related questions.

Each attempt at a resolution failed.

In the meantime, in 1991, I urged the 65 regional bishops of the ELCA not to bring disciplinary action against parish pastors who felt free in conscience to bless homosexual pairs who came for an affirmation of their relationships.

It was a step.

After I retired from office in 1995, the ELCA continued to wrestle with these matters. Finally, in 2009, more than three decades after my first encounters with gay and lesbian members, the national assembly of the ELCA, by a two-thirds majority, affirmed those in faithful, lifelong same-gender relationships and allowed congregations to call a homosexual pastor who is in that kind of partnership.

It was a step.

In the four years since then, a small but growing number of the nearly 10,000 congregations in the ELCA have opened wider their doors to these fellow believers.

It is a step.

In a hierarchal organization like the Roman Catholic Church, where such decisions are made by a small coterie of cardinals in Rome, the process of change could drag on for far more than three decades. And the outcome can only be surmised.

In the meantime, many of us — Lutherans, Roman Catholics, other Christians and non-Christians — give thanks for the kind and understanding words of Francis.

It is a step.

------ Herbert W. Chilstrom, of St. Peter, is former presiding bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

Homosexuality and the Campaign for Immorality (Selected Scriptures)

Also: Al Mohler on today's Supreme Court Decisions. 

Furthermore: Denny Burk on the sweeping nature of the DOMA decision. 

"Enemies of the Human Race"

Piper and Metaxas on so called "same sex marriage", Bonhoeffer, civil rights, abortion, Romans 13

Although I was very mystified and disappointed by John Piper's "clarification" on heresy and how it relates to the Roman Catholic Church, and I agree with what Dr. White said recently on the Dividing Line about it and its application from Galatians 5; I still very much like John Piper and don't think I am being too soft or nice on him.  I also don't understand totally why he never really answered the issues that people brought up about his invitation of Rick Warren, except maybe he doesn't think investigating RW and spending any more time on that is worth his time.  ( I also disagree with Dr. Piper on the continuation of the sign and miracle spiritual gifts, but if they are still continuing today, those that believe in God's sovereignty like Dr. Piper and others like him are the best representatives of that position.)  I thought Piper's original video about what would you say if you had 2 minutes with the Pope was very good and more clear than his recent "clarification". 

I wrote this at my other blog, "apologetics and agape", where I link to a recent Piper video (with Eric Metaxas) and also to some of Denny Burk's recent blog articles on so called "same sex marriage".

I originally just started a Word Press Blog just so I could log in and debate with Muslims at Paul Bilal Williams blog  ; (I just noticed that he may have banned me again; he bans me every now and then, and lets me come back later) but it has resulted in me not being able to resist debating informally with different Muslims there and writing other articles at my "apologeticsandagpe" word press site. ("apologetics and agape" = Meaning the balance of truth and love)

I just don't have the energy or extra time to write long articles on each blog, and also with lots of other mission work,  travel, teaching, preparation, and writing other articles on missions; and also writing some articles in Farsi is taking up lots of time; so I am linking to it here.

This video is well worth your time to watch and listen.

Bonhoeffer QA with John Piper & Eric Metaxas from The Hub on Vimeo.

Affirm the Sacred - Preserve Marriage

Song of Solomon 8:6  Place me as a seal upon your heart, like a seal upon your arm. For love is as strong as death, its jealousy as unyielding as the grave. It flashes like fire, the very flame of the Lord.

Mark 10:6 – God made them male and female.

Genesis 2:24 – For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be united to his wife. And the two will become one…

HT:  From Denny Burk - Affirm the Sacred - Preserve Marriage

Furthermore . . . 
Jesus in Matthew 19:4-6

4 And He [Jesus] answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, [alluding to Genesis 1:1; 1:27; 5:2]

5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall becomeone flesh’? [ Quoting Genesis 2:24]

6 “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

Jesus teaches several truths:

1.  Jesus affirms God the Father, the Creator "from the beginning" - harkening back to Genesis 1:1 - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."  (alludes to Genesis 1:27; and Genesis 5:2) 

2.  Jesus affirms Genesis and creation as Truth and history.

3.  Jesus said that from the beginning, there is only "male and female" for marriage.  ( i.e., there is no room for homosexuality, lesbianism, the "gay" lifestyle, transgender, bi-sexuality, etc.)  

4.  Jesus limits marriage to two, one man and one woman.  "the two will become one flesh".  The ideal was monogamy from creation, even though polygamy was later allowed, it was not the ideal pattern.

5.  Jesus teaches that God joins people in marriage, and since it is from the beginning and creation, it transcends culture; it transcends any changes in history, cultural shifts in ideas, and even if majority opinion starts saying that "homosexuality is ok" - according to Jesus, it never is ok and never will be.

6. Marriage is by definition and by nature, only one man and one woman.  (Romans 1:21-28 speaks about the homosexuals who "abandon the natural function for what is un-natural" and "men who abandon the natural function of woman for what is un-natural". )

7.  Jesus teaches against divorce and affirms the principle in Malachi 2:16, "I, the Lord, hate divorce".
[the only exceptions being 1. continual unrepentant adultery - Matthew 19:7-9; and 2. desertion by an unbeliever - 1 Corinthians 7:15]

Therefore, don't let anyone get away with saying, "Jesus never said anything about homosexuality." By teaching the positive principles of male and female, monogamy, marriage, from creation, rooted in God the creator, quoting Genesis - He is speaking against homosexuality.  Jesus basically said the same sentiment as the saying goes, "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!"  Besides all that, Jesus is the eternal word (John 1:1-5), the second person of the Trinity and so was fully behind Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13; and was fully behind Paul's words in Romans 1:19-28; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; and 1 Timothy 1:8-11; Jesus was in fully unity with the Father and with the Holy Spirit, who breathed out the words, and guided the human writers to write God-breathed words. (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:20-21)