Matatics On the Road Again

For those who enjoy the wandering ramblings of Gerry Matatics, here is a recent email from him about a new opportunity. I cut out the middle which is primarily about donations.

Dear Friends:

One of the foremost traditional Catholic educational leaders in our country has presented me with a unique opportunity to make the Biblical case for Catholicism to a Baptist group in Albuquerque, New Mexico in the next month or two. But if things go right, this can rapidly mushroom into a six-state speaking tour of Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, west Texas, and Oklahoma. Please keep reading.

A God-sent evangelistic opportunity

As a former Protestant myself, I'm always thrilled with such opportunities to lay out the Scriptural, historical, and logical arguments for the Catholic Faith being the one true Faith and the Catholic Church being the one true Church, outside of which there is no salvation. I've been doing this full-time for 22 years now.

I know the mindset of these folks very well. As you may know, I myself was a convinced Baptist for many years -- throughout my high school, university, and graduate school years -- before finally embracing Presbyterianism while completing my Master of Divinity degree at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary and becoming an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church in America.

From first-hand personal experience I readily understand Baptist misconceptions and prejudices. I know how their mind works and how they handle Scripture. And, by God's grace, I've been very blessed to successfully persuade many Baptists over the years to embrace the Catholic Faith, in the hundreds of cities and towns I've spoken in so far.

… [donations requested]

Whichever way you choose to donate, I look forward to hearing from you if you can help make this trip a reality. I honestly don't know anyone else who travels all across the country as I do, from Alaska to Florida, from Maine to Hawaii, bringing the hard-hitting traditional Catholic message that I do. Despite my unworthiness, I truly believe that, by God's grace, this apostolate is unique, and uniquely deserves your prayerful support and the support of every clear-minded Catholic in this age of inconsistency, doctrinal confusion, and near-universal apostasy.

Thank you for keeping me going in this crusade to bring the unadulterated Catholic Faith to every man, woman, and child in America before it's too late. Please feel free to forward this e-mail to anyone you think might be interested in helping. Thanks, and may God richly bless you and your family! You already know, I'm sure, that we remember all our donors and all their loved ones in our family rosary every evening. God be with you, now and forever.

Your servant in Christ Our King and Mary Our Queen Mother,

Gerry Matatics, Founder & President
Biblical Foundations International

Gerry Matatics Live On ISI Today

Today at 3 PM, Catholic apologist Gerry Matatics will be interviewed on Iron Sharpens Iron. Iron Sharpens Iron is a live broadcast. It can be heard live streamed here between 3 and 4 PM, eastern standard time.

Do you have a question Gerry? Call in TODAY 1-631-321-WNYG (9694) between 3 and 4 PM.



GERRY MATATICS, Founder & President of a Traditionalist Catholic apostolate known as Biblical Foundations International , and the very first ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church in America ever to convert to Roman Catholicism, who subsequently in recent years has adopted an extremely controversial position adhered to by a minority of self-professed Traditionalist Catholics called "sedevacantism", will address the theme: "IS JOSEPH RATZINGER A TRUE POPE?: A Sedevacantist Catholic's View."

Sedevacantism, a term derived from the Latin "while the seat is empty", referring to the "Chair of St. Peter" or the papal office, is a belief that although the papacy is still an office ordained by God Himself, there have been no legitimate popes for half a century, and that all those bishops alleged to have ascended to the papacy subsequent to the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958 up through the present (which would include John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II and Benedict XVI) are not only counterfeit popes, but are also counterfeit Catholics, since they have espoused modernist heresies such as maintaining ecumenical relations with Protestants and other non-Catholics, and have perpetuated other teachings and practices upheld by Vatican II which were deemed to be heretical by previous Catholic councils. Sedevacantism received a lot more media attention than is typical several years ago during the publicity surrounding the blockbuster film "The Passion of the Christ", produced and directed by Academy Award winner Mel Gibson, whose father Hutton is a sedevacantist (whether or not Mel Gibson himself could correctly be described as a sedevacantist is debatable, albeit the fact that the church he privately funded, Church of the Holy Family in Malibu, CA, appears to have sympathies with some controversial sedevacantist positions). Although our guest today, Gerry Matatics, was featured providing theological commentary on the DVD of the "Director's Cut" of "The Passion of the Christ," Gerry insists he has no close affiliation with Mel Gibson nor any connection whatsoever with Mr. Gibson's privately funded congregation.

Prior to Gerry's adoption of sedevacantism (a term he only grudgingly uses as shorthand when describing his views), he was one of the most highly sought after Catholic apologists in America, and was one of the most highly praised contemporary defenders of the Catholic Faith by his former colleagues at Catholic Answers , a well known apologetic organization within the mainstream of Catholicism. While Gerry was himself within the pale of the mainstream, he was invited to participate and engaged in frequent public, moderated debates with such noteworthy Evangelical Protestant apologists as Dr. James R. White of Alpha & Omega Ministries .

Although Gerry is still very actively traveling and speaking, it has been extremely difficult finding a capable, noteworthy apologist within the mainstream of Catholicism willing to participate in a public forum with him to debate or discuss the sedevacantist controversy. Many unsuccessful attempts were made to find such a Catholic to oppose Gerry's positions on this radio/Internet program. A more extensive biographical sketch of Gerry can be found here . Two earlier programs on "Iron Sharpens Iron" on the topic of "Sedevacantism", one with Gerry alone, and one featuring an exchange between Gerry and Evangelical Protestant apologist Dr. James R. White, can be heard on free, downloadable mp3 .

CAVEAT LECTOR: This interview is not to be mistaken as an expression of "modern ecumenism" between the Reformed Baptist host and his Traditionalist Catholic guest on this radio broadcast. The host merely believes that a critical examination of Pope Benedict XVI from a scholarly Catholic perspective is not only something that may rarely be heard or seen elsewhere in the media, but is a valuable topic for discussion in a day and age where the desire to preserve theological purity has been replaced with sentimentalism in both modern Catholicism and Evangelicalism.

Unity Update On The Unified Church

I get mailings from Catholic apologist Gerry Matatics (He makes Catholic apologetics interesting!). I found a link that really shows what type of unity even those Catholics opposed to current Roman Catholicism have. Try reading through this link.

On a similar note, Catholic apologist Steve Ray had an interesting blog entry on the Jesuits. Ray quoted an article stating,

"The mission of the Jesuit order, as understood by most of its members, has changed radically in recent decades. As recently as the mid-20th century, the Jesuits were known as stalwart defenders of the Pope, who trained loyal young Catholics to defend Church doctrines. Today they are inveterate critics of the Vatican, who train young Catholics to question their faith. Is there any discussion among Jesuit leaders of a return to the defense of Catholic orthodoxy? Evidently not.

Perhaps not coincidentally, as the Jesuits have maneuvered to establish what amounts to a "loyal opposition" within the Catholic Church, the order has suffered heavily from defections and lost its ability to attract young recruits. In 1965 when Father Arrupe became superior general, there were about 36,000 Jesuits in the world. Today that figure has been cut nearly in half, with about 19,000 Jesuits remaining in a rapidly aging society. . . . "

And finally, contrast this to a recent statement made by another Catholic apologist:

"The same thing happens with Protestants, in their internal squabbles. This is one of the ongoing tragedies of Protestantism. Protestants can scream "sola Scriptura" and perspicuity (clearness) of Scripture till kingdom come, but they can't agree on its teaching, and so they need authoritative interpretation and a guide: the Church, tradition, councils, popes, and apostolic succession."

Gerry Matatics: Counterfeit Catholicism

James informed me that Gerry Matatics was speaking in my area this week, so I headed out Friday evening to attend one of his seminars. James attended one of Gerry’s seminars a year ago and wrote about his experience here. The overall content of the seminar wasn’t much different than what James described, but I thought I would add some additional details that I found interesting.

First, for those not familiar with Gerry, he was formerly an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) before converting to Catholicism where he became a mainstream Catholic apologist (formerly working with Catholic Answers and debating James White a few times in the early 1990s). More recently he has embraced Sedevacantism and seems to be devoting himself full-time to defending his beliefs (although he appears to not be too fond of the Sedevacantist title).

Gerry’s current “mega-tour of over 300 cities and towns”is focused on his current position that “a) the Catholic Faith and the Catholic Church are the one true Faith and the one true Church, outside of which there is no salvation (as both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition repeatedly affirm and as the Sacred Magisterium, or teaching office, of the Church has infallibly defined many times), but that b) that authentic Catholic Faith and that authentic Catholic Church are no longer found at the local parish, in the local diocese, or even ruling from Rome in our day.” Gerry’s seminar flier entitled “Counterfeit Catholicism” promised to share some “startling, eye-opening facts” over a 2 hour period follow with some Q&A time.

I am not sure if the particular seminar I attended would attest to the size (or makeup) of the sedevacantist following or not, but besides Gerry, there were 5 men and myself in the room. One man who was wearing what I believed to be a rather large rosary had his tape recorder but other than that, I was the only one taking copious notes (and the only one who brought my bible as suggested in the flier). Luckily, James had forwarned me about the opening prayer so I was prepared to not join in as “Our Lady” was called upon, followed my a Hail Mary, then some type of responsorial pray to Mary, followed by a rattled off list of saints to “pray for us” (I only caught St. Pius and St. Bellarmine).

Gerry then moved on to his presentation warning us up front that he would have to cut out some portions of his usual talk due to the time, but offering tapes for sale that cover the full material. After a quick joke he opened with 3 prophecies from “Our Lady of La Salette” (1846): “In the last days, Rome itself will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Antichrist ... the Church will be in eclipse". Gerry seems to believe these prophecies have come to fruition and goes on from here to support his belief from both biblical and more extra-biblical prophecies. He speaks quickly and covers a lot of material and rather than share my notes here, I would recommend you read a summary of the content of these seminars from his website (also briefly excerpted below).

It is clear that Gerry has spent a lot of time researching Church History, papal documents and I think he makes a good case that the Roman Catholic Church of today has broken away from many of her historical beliefs. I found it odd though that he seems to give a lot of credence to extrabiblical prophecies (listed under “fact #2 on his site). He spoke of “Our Lady of La Salette” more than once and also seemed intrigued by a supposed vision of Pope Leo XIII in 1888 which springboarded into accusations of freemasonry infiltration into the Church at the beginning of the 20 century (see Alta Vendita). At that point I began to wonder how many in the room really believe Oswald shot Kennedy.

For a small group, the Q&A was more lively than expected. Gerry’s presentation ended around 9:45pm and when I finally got up to leave at 10:50pm, the discussions were still continuing. I was disappointed that I didn’t get a chance to peruse Gerry’s book table as he had many sources there that he mentioned during his talk, but I did write down a few titles he particularly recommended and will list those books at the end of the post.

During the Q&A, Gerry claimed that there were a few bishops at the Vatican II council who refused to sign the documents and soon after retired, not agreeing with the changes made at that Council to “the faith”. He also mentioned that there are still some men living (but quite old) who were bishops under the reign of Pope Pius XII. Apparently Gerry has been tracking down these men and meeting with them to try and find one to step forward and reclaim the Church (denouncing Vatican II). While I don’t agree with his position anymore than the modern day RCC, I do have to give him credit for his persistence.

One of the questions during the Q&A mentioned the Dimond Brothers website which I decided to look up today. These guys appear to also be sedevacantists although they appear to have a beef with Gerry because he is a little soft on “baptism of desire”. Prior to going to Gerry’s presentation I came across this post from the Saint Benedict Center, a traditionalist group who while holding many traditional beliefs in common with Gerry, feel he has gone too far with his sedevacantistism. Looking around there appear to be a variety of Catholic splinter groups, some still in communion with Rome, who can’t seem to find complete unity in their beliefs.

To summarize, these are Gerry’s main points (excerpted from his site):

1. The Vatican II Church, though it has much in common with the Catholic Church, does teach doctrines, offer worship and sacraments, and promulgate laws that have all been previously condemned by the Catholic Church as being fundamentally incompatible with the Catholic Faith.

2. The rise of such a counterfeit "church," successfully masquerading as the Catholic Church because a) composed of nearly all the former clergy and laity of the Catholic Church who lost their membership (and, in the case of the clergy, their offices) in the true Church by being spiritually seduced into subscribing to heresy, and b) possessing the real estate and controlling the infrastructure (chanceries, marriage tribunals, schools, colleges, universities and seminaries, publishing houses, etc.) formerly owned and operated by the true Church, has been foretold by numerous prophecies given, not only in Sacred Scripture but also by Our Lady and numerous saints -- including, Popes, Fathers, and Doctors of the Church.

3. …next in the talk we examine the beliefs of the men who have sat on the throne of St. Peter since the death of Pius XII in 1958: John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I & II, and Benedict XVI. An examination of their writings, speeches, and actions readily reveals that these men were not orthodox Catholics -- even before their elections -- but modernists and manifest heretics, Freemasons, and abettors of Communism (yes, even John Paul II) and Talmudic Judaism.

4. This in turn means that, as unlawful usurpers of the papacy, John XXIII had no authority to call, and Paul VI no authority to consummate, a lawful and valid general council of the Church. The therefore illicit and invalid council John XXIII and Paul VI did, respectively, call and conclude would not and could not enjoy the protection and infallibility of the Holy Ghost.

Summary: "the only possible conclusion is that what is found in Rome, in your diocese, and at your local parish is no longer the Catholic Church, but the above-mentioned clever counterfeit that God Himself has permitted to take over the infrastructure of the Church, in order to fulfill His prophecies and plans. One who denies this conclusion by arguing that, while these modern doctrines, worship, and laws are not fully Catholic, the Vatican II Church which offers them is nevertheless the Catholic Church, rejects the teaching of Pius XII (and other popes) that the true Church can never offer such aberrations. In thus rejecting the Church's authoritative teaching regarding its own fidelity and purity, such a person shows he is not a Catholic at all -- he himself has become a "counterfeit Catholic"."

Some books recommended by Gerry:
Tumultuous Times
The Popes Against Modern Errors
The Ottaviani Intervention

Churchmouse On The Air

My good cyber-friend Ray (aka "Churchmouse") made it on to this past Wednesday's Iron Sharpens Iron program to ask Catholic apologist Gerry Matatics a question. The next day, he sent an e-mail question to Iron Sharpens Iron which was read on the air (to which James White responded). I pulled both clips from the show, spliced them together as an MP3 file: Churchmouse On The Air.

Ray has been a good friend for many years now. He has his own blog, A Churchmouse's Musings. He has also contributed articles to this blog:

Guest Blog:Did Jerome Change His Mind on the Apocrypha ?

Gerry Matatics Interview

Iron Sharpens Iron will have Catholic apologist Gerry Matatics on today at 3PM. This is a live show, so if you want to call in and talk to Gerry, here is your chance (I won't be able to listen live or call in, but if I could call in, I'd ask Gerry where the tapes are he promised to send me last year when I went to his lecture). The station is AM 1440, and can only be heard on Long Island, other parts of NYC, and Connecticut. Fortunately, this radio station also live-streams online. Their webpage can be found here. Their Real Player broadcast link is here.


"GERRY MATATICS, the very first minister ordained in the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) to convert to Roman Catholicism (see http://www.gerrymatatics.org/aboutgerry.html), who at one time was one of the most highly sought after apologists, debaters and conference speakers within "mainstream", conservative Roman Catholicism (having worked along side such renowned Catholic apologists as Scott Hahn, and other well known apologists affiliated with Catholic Answers), will address his most recently embraced theological position "SEDEVACANTISM": the theology of a sector within "Traditional" Catholicism that claims THERE HAVE BEEN *NO* LEGITIMATE POPES FOR OVER 40 YEARS TO THE PRESENT (and that all those who have claimed to be within the Papal Succession of Pope Pius XII to the present are not even to be considered genuine Roman Catholics). Mr. Matatics, along with other "sedevacantists", also reject all those professing to be priests ordained since Vatican II as *illegitimate* priests and *false* Catholics with no genuine power or authority to administer the Sacraments of the "true" Catholic Church. Those who may be most well known today connected with this extremely controversial movement are Academy Award winner Mel Gibson and his father Hutton. Gerry Matatics is also featured as a commentating theologian on the DVD for Mel Gibson's blockbuster film "The Passion of the Christ, Director's Cut"."


Don't forget also, tomorrow's show will be a review of this interview by Dr. James White:


"DR. JAMES R. WHITE, renowned author, Bible scholar, debater and Founder & Director of Alpha & Omega Ministries (see www.aomin.org), a theologically Reformed, Evangelical Protestant apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona, will conduct a "REVIEW OF WEDNESDAY'S INTERVIEW WITH GERRY MATATICS" (see above). Dr. White is perfectly suited to provide commentary due to the fact that he debated Gerry Matatics on the subject of the Papacy in Denver during "World Youth Day" in 1993 (he had previously debated him on the subject in 1990 in Tempe, a debate moderated by Scott Hahn). According to Dr. White, it remains one of the clearest refutations of Rome's claims to papal primacy offered by Alpha & Omega Ministries. A full seven hours worth of debate (real debate, not radio programs with callers, commercials, and the like, debate---the real thing) during which Mr. Matatics defended the very institution he *now* claims is in apostasy. For those interested, I would direct anyone to every single one of the debates Dr. White has done on the Papacy in general, and papal infallibility in particular, which includes debates against Catholic apologists Gerry Matatics, Robert Sungenis, Tim Staples, and Mitch Pacwa, offered at www.aomin.org. Gerry Matatics has agreed to have some interaction with Dr. White during this extremely controversial, live broadcast."

UPDATE
The first show can be found here. An MP3 of the followup show with Dr. White can be found here. On the first broadcast, my good friend Churchmouse made it on to the air as a caller. When I get a chance, I'm going to find that call and post it as a separate MP3 file.

I got a support letter from Catholic apologist Gerry Matatics today:

"2500 a month is a shoestring operating budget. That's only $30,000 a year. Compare that to the big name Novus Ordo apologists and apologetics organizations living high off the hog because they, individually, each rake in over a million dollars a year - all of it wasted singing the praises of Benedict XVI and the "New Springtime of the Church" they vainly claim we are now enjoying, and sending people to a counterfeit "Mass" and to counterfeit sacraments from the hands of counterfeit priests who cannot properly save these people's souls."

Who Has "The Gospel", And What Happens Without It?

In my review of the Gerry Matatics seminar, I mentioned “I couldn’t help but like Gerry, despite the fact that he denies the very Gospel I treasure.” This statement received a response in the blogback comments:

“I am a Catholic convert who reads and enjoys your blog (even if I do disagree with you on many points). I am, however, troubled by this statement from your post: "despite the fact that he denies the very Gospel I treasure."Is this statement directed solely at Matatics or all Catholics? Surely, you don't believe that all Catholics are "gospel deniers." I mean, it's one thing to say that Catholics are mistaken in their interpretation of the Bible, and it's quite another to characterize that as denying the gospel. It just seems to me that with the culture rotting at its core, and Catholics and reformed protestants sharing much common ground, there ought to be a desire to use less hostile characterizations. I am not suggesting that we paper over our serious theological disagreements, but calling every Catholic a gospel denier seems a bit over the top.”

My comment was directed toward Gerry. During the seminar, Gerry repeatedly denied that justification is by faith alone. He made sure to emphasize this. I believe the Bible teaches Justification by faith alone (Romans 3-4). Thus, Gerry denies that which I treasure.

The next response:

“James-I respect your position. It's one that I once held. But opposition to sola fide is not peculiar to Gerry. Indeed, all orthodox Catholics would reject that doctrine. But it's one thing to say, "Catholics reject a biblical doctrine that I believe to be at the very heart of the gospel," and quite another to call someone who disagrees with sola fide a "gospel denier." I just think we, as brothers in Christ, ought to move beyond such rhetoric. I may think that your wrong about sola fide, but I certainly don't question your love/devotion to Jesus Christ.Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to promote some sort of "warm fuzzy," let's-pretend-we-don't-have-any-theological-differences dialogue. I am just suggesting that questioning whether the other side is even Christian strikes me as unproductive.”

At the seminar, Gerry Matatics used the old analogy that if one is suspending a heavy object in the air by a chain, if one link is weak or bad, the entire object will crash to the ground. I feel similarly about Rome’s denial of the heart of the gospel- sola fide. While Rome may say some nice things about the Gospel, it denies the very heart of the Gospel. Thus, the entire Gospel “falls” in official Roman Catholic declaration. If one link in the chain is bad, the entire chain is bad and will not support what it intends to.

Right before the seminar, my wife leaned over to me and asked, “Are these people here our brothers and sisters in Christ?” I whispered back, “No…and maybe.” I said this because my opinion is that Rome denies the heart of the Gospel and so therefore does not officially teach the “Gospel.” On the other hand, I don’t deny that there are some Roman Catholics that are my brothers and sisters in Christ- but this is despite Rome’s teaching, not because of it.

I know it must seem arrogant and foolish to believe that sola fide is the heart of the Gospel. But I believe the Bible teaches it, and also teaches that finding justification in any other way is a doomed endeavor. I will attempt to present this position with as much respect as I possibly can. I realize this is a harsh opinion to Roman Catholic ears- but this does not mean I “hate” Catholics or dislike them. You won’t find me calling Rome the “Whore of Babylon” or saying that the Pope is the antichrist.

Now, Gerry Matatics and I at least seem to agree on one thing: I do believe that doctrine is important- so did Gerry Matatics. I believe doctrine has eternal consequences- so did Gerry Matatics. I think Gerry would likewise say to me, “If you are outside the church you will not be saved” or “you cannot be saved if you believe the heresy of sola fide”.

Take a look at these quotes from Gerry’s website:


Catholic Faith: no salvation outside of

“This true Catholic Faith, outside of which none can be saved, which I now profess and truly hold …”

(Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council I, Session 2, Profession of Faith, 1870)


Church: no salvation outside of

“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic Faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity … This is the Catholic Faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”

(Athanasian Creed; quoted and solemnly ratified ex cathedra by Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, session 8, November 22, 1439)

“There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice.”

(Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215)

"The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church -- not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics -- cannot share in eternal life, and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; [the Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches] that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgivings and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and [the Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches] that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

(Ex cathedra solemn definition of Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence (Ecumenical Council), "Cantate Domino," 1441; Denzinger)

“It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and the Rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their members ... By divine faith we hold one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and … this is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Church.”

(Pope Leo XII, Ubi Primum, May 5, 1824; paragraph 14)

Church: only the baptized are members

"Only those are really to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith and who have not unhappily withdrawn from Body-unity or for grave faults have been excluded by legitimate authority."

(Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi)

Faith, Catholic: Necessary for salvation

“ Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith.For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire he will undoubtedly be lost forever. This is what the Catholic faith teaches …

This, then, is what he who wishes to be saved must believe about the Trinity. It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ …This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved.”

(Athanasian Creed)

Jews: forfeit covenant relationship with God due to unbelief

“… If you be Christ’s then you are the seed of Abraham” (Gal 3:29). If we because of our faith in Christ are deemed children of Abraham, the Jews therefore because of their perfidy [“deliberate breach of faith; calculated violation of trust; treachery” – American Heritage Dictionary, Second edition] have ceased to be His seed.”

(St. Gregory the Great, Sunday Sermons of the Great Fathers, vol. 1, p. 92)

Non-Catholics: are not Christians

“Even the heretics appear to have Christ, for none of them denies the name of Christ; yet, anyone who does not confess all that pertains to Christ does in fact deny Christ.”

(St. Ambrose (+389): cited in Faith of the Early Fathers, Vol. 2, p. 163)

“Therefore the holy martyr Cyprian, writing about schism, denied to the pseudo-bishop Novatian even the title of Christian, on the grounds that he was cut off and separated from the Church of Christ. ‘Whoever he is,’ he says, ‘and whatever sort he is, he is not a Christian who is not in the Church of Christ.’ “

(Pope Pius IX, Etsi multa, November 21, 1873, paragraph 25)

Unevangelized peoples: faithless and in bondage to Satan

“We are thankful for the success of apostolic missions in America, the Indies, and other faithless lands…They search out those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death to summon them to the light and life of the Catholic religion… At length they snatch them from the devil’s rule by the bath of regeneration and promote them to the freedom of God’s adopted sons.”

(Pope Gregory XVI, Probe Nostis, Sept. 18, 1840; paragraph 6)

Now- the times have changed, and Protestants are not normally considered “heretics” by Roman Catholic apologists anymore. We are considered “separated brethren” or something to that effect. Gerry Matatics though would conclude differently. At least Gerry and I can agree truth is vital, and both agree Catholics and Protestants believe in two different Gospels. Both of us believe the other is eternally wrong.

During the Reformation period the new Protestants were popularly considered heretics. But since Protestants are supposedly not heretics anymore- I have to wonder why there is a need for most Roman Catholic apologetics. What’s the point? Why do Catholic apologetics? Why spend so much time writing against the Reformation or Protestants? It seems time could be spent better elsewhere.

I've been in more than a few discussion with Roman Catholics. Very few wish to call me a heretic. I tried one time to appeal to Galatians 1:6-9-

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!"

I've asked- Isn't Justification by faith alone considered "another gospel" to a Roman Catholic? Why not condemn me a heretic?

The answer:The only way I could be deemed a heretic was if I knew the Roman Catholic Church was the true church- and still I denied her truth. But since I remain convinced the Roman Catholic Church does not teach the truth and is a false church, i'm not a heretic, but rather, seperated brethren- due to my ignorance- even though I adhere to faith alone, and believe that it is the Gospel- and I condemn as anathema any system that would deny it.

Now apply Catholic apologist logic to the Scriptures, and church history. What happens? It's not possible to consistently apply this logic to the Scriptures and church history. It certainly doesn't seem to fit with Paul's emphatic plea in Galatians 1. It also doesn't seem to fit with what the Council of Trent declared:

Canon 9- "If Anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema."

Even the Catholic Encyclopedia grips it:

"The doctrine of justification by faith alone was considered by Luther and his followers as an incontrovertible dogma, as the foundation rock of the Reformation, as an "article by which the Church must stand or fall" (articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesia), and which of itself would have been a sufficient cause for beginning the Reformation, as the Smalkaldic Articles emphatically declare. Thus we need not wonder when later on we see Lutheran theologians declaring that the Sola-Fides doctrine, as the principium materiale of Protestantism, deserves to be placed side by side with the doctrine of Sola-Scriptura ("Bible alone", with the exclusion of Tradition) as its principium formale -- two maxims in which the contrast between Protestant and Catholic teaching reaches its highest point. Since, however, neither maxim can be found in the Bible, every Catholic is forced to conclude that Protestantism from its very beginning and foundation is based on self-deception."

Gerry Matatics: Catholic Apologist For The "Last Days"

On July 15, 2006 I went to see Catholic apologist Gerry Matatics. Some of you probably remember Gerry from his many debates with James White. Some of you (both protestants and Catholics) probably wonder what’s happened to Gerry since he “…[F]ully embraced the traditional Catholic Faith, rejecting as constituting a counterfeit Catholicism all the doctrinal, liturgical, and moral novelties of the last forty years -- and those who have sought to impose them (John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I & II, and Benedict XVI)-- and attending exclusively the Traditional Latin Mass offered by validly-ordained Catholic priests”[source]. Gerry’s new position has deemed him somewhat of an anathema with most of the other popular Catholic apologists, as well the great majority of Roman Catholic laymen.

Gerry came to the Holiday Inn in Totowa New Jersey to give “…a brand-new, exciting, eye-opening seminar entitled ‘Counterfeit Catholicism and the Fulfillment of Prophecy: Ten Troubling Facts No One Can Deny.’” The seminar was to be 4 hours long. I got there about 15 minutes early, Gerry got there about 20 minutes late, and by the time he set up, the seminar kicked off about 45 minutes late. There were probably around 30 or so people in attendance. Gerry’s is like a whirlwind, running in with multiple boxes of books and notes, setting up a large table of notes, notebooks and books, scattered haphazardly across a table, talking and apologizing for being late.

I was only able to stay for the first presentation of the multiple talks Gerry gave, but I did introduce myself to him on the way out, and explained to him I went to a Reformed church, and took classes via Westminster Seminary. I think it really charged him up knowing a Protestant came to hear him, and he generously offered to send me the tapes for the entire seminar. I couldn’t help but like Gerry, despite the fact that he denies the very Gospel I treasure. Perhaps he thought I was on a journey on my way “home to Rome”. This is hardly the case. Rather, my interest in my own studies of the Reformation and Catholicism prompted me to hear his perspective. Gerry represents a new group of “reformers”. I wanted to hear for myself what his “95 Theses” are.

The seminar began with prayer. I hadn’t felt uncomfortable until this happened. The entire room rose to their feet, except a few of us. Gerry began praying- including a prayer to Mary, as well as asking a number of saints to “pray for us”. The flyer for the seminar did say, “People of all faiths (or none) are warmly welcome!” I didn’t feel at all comfortable at this point, and Gerry’s opening comments explaining that he “renounced Protestantism” and rejected “faith alone and Scripture alone” didn’t at all make me feel welcome. However, Gerry’s a likeable guy, so I was determined to hear at least some of his presentation.

Gerry’s new position is somewhat “eschatological.” He emphasized more than once that the church is in a “last days” crisis. Thus, the entire undercurrent of his talk had a sense of urgency; reminiscent of those dispensational evangelical church services I grew up in where the rapture was going to happen at any moment. The signs of the times proved this to be the case. Gerry began by saying that this is an “age of apostasy”. He appealed to 2 Thessalonians 2 that in the last days there would be a “great falling away” and a “great deception.” While the church has experienced great crises over her 2000-year history piecemeal, in the last 40 years she is experiencing them all at once. Gerry holds the great majority of Catholics have been swept away by great deceptions in last 40 years, particularly ecumenism. Not only the Bible predicts this, but also various “approved” sightings of Mary throughout history have similarly confirmed the great falling away of the church in the last days. Mary said in 1846 that the church in the last days would be in “eclipse”- that is, hidden by darkness and difficult to see.

Gerry noted that Jesus asked at his return whether he would even be able to find the church at his return. In other words, the Bible predicts the “true” church will not be so visible in the end times. The church is to end as it began in the 1st century- underground. Likewise, there have been periods during church history in which only a “remnant” has remained. Those of you who have heard Gerry debate with James White, may recall that White brings up how Athanasius stood almost alone against the majority of the Church. Matatics likewise brought up the same point. During the Arian crisis 97-99% of all the bishops were “heretics”. It was Athanasius who stood alone against heresy.

An interesting point Gerry raised is how the “Church” has responded to heresy in the past, and how it is to respond to it now during these “last days.” Gerry noted there is a common misconception that those in authority of the Church have their finger on the pulse of all heresies, and are busily combating them. In other words, Catholic laymen think they shouldn’t be involved in combating heresy, but should rather leave it in the hands of the Magisterium. Gerry says this shouldn’t be, and hasn’t been the case during the history of the church. For instance, during the Nestorian heresy, the laypeople raised their voices against Nestorius as a heretic. It was the laypeople that preserved the faith, and for this were subsequently praised by later popes and councils. Gerry declared: when the shepherd becomes a wolf, the flock must defend itself! The “true” children of the Holy Church do not simply wait for Rome to declare error and truth. Gerry’s exhorted Catholics to know their beliefs in order to combat heresy within the church. It’s up to Catholic layman and lay-groups to preserve the “true” Catholic faith handed down from the apostles.

After listening to Matatics for an hour or so, I couldn’t help but conclude Gerry’s in the same boat as the Protestant Reformers. Gerry vigorously distances himself from them, but in essence, he’s engaging a similar battle. He’s taking on “sola ecclesia”. He’s taking on an authority structure that does not admit error- for to admit error would devastate its hold on its people. The Reformers likewise at first attempted to cry out against abuse and heresy within the Church. They were not listened to. Maybe Gerry realizes that Rome will never hear him- which is why his latest lectures emphasized that these are the “last days”. Perhaps Gerry doesn’t expect the Magisterium to listen to him- as Gerry and his small group of Catholics represent the “true” church, holding on till the end. It's Gerry and The Late Great Catholic Church.