Bon Voyage .... Envoy Forums?

The Envoy forums seem to be MIA. The forums are the property of Roman Catholic apologist Patrick Madrid. It's a an odd environment, where dangerous wild Sippo's run loose, and fiction is stranger than fact. Does anyone know what happened

Update: They have retuned.

A note of thanks from Patrick Madrid:

"I almost didn't bother checking the link to Swan's page to see what his comments were. I haven't been there in quite a long time, but it's obvious that nothing has changed. A quick scan of his recent posts reveals Swan's obsession with this forum. Apparently, he's still smarting from being banned from posting here. Who knows? In any case, judging from his seeming fixation on what happens over here on this forum, it really does seem to be time for him to get over it and move on. He'll no doubt soon compose a "rebuttal" to this post of mine -- which will supply additional, if unnecessary, evidence that he follows this forum very, very, very closely. He's clearly far more interested in what I and others say over here than I am in what he says over there (or anywhere else, for that matter). Anyway, his attempt to portray this thread about an interesting and well-produced short film as somehow entailing a connection with purgatory is laughable. The film, as I pointed out above, has nothing to do with purgatory, at least not in the sense that the Catholic Church teaches the doctrine (for an overview of the teaching, see here: http://www.envoymagazine.com/PlanetEnvoy/Special-PurgatoryEmergencyRoom1.htm). The statement in the film by the devil character about it being purgatory is, as I pointed out, wrong. The fictitious incident portrayed in the clip has nothing to do with purgatory nor, in fact, does it reflect Catholic teaching in general about the afterlife. Of course, Swan can say whatever he wants about purgatory on his own weblog (although he can't do so anymore here on this forum, after being deported), but you'd think the guy would at least try to make a meaningful, pertinent comment, as opposed to the foolishness there now. And that goes also for the foolishness contained in several of the posts in his comments' section. Oh, and though I probably won't bother to check, whoever does read Swan's weblog with any regularity will no doubt soon see him post a "rebuttal" to my article on purgatory, linked above. Whatever. Talk about Pavlov's dogs. I tinkle the bell over here and, as sure as night follows day, you know exactly what's going to happen over there. Swan must have a truly incredible amount of free time on his hands to spend so much time obsessing about and commenting on what people say on this forum.The phrase "get a life" comes to mind."

I don't think I've mentioned Envoy since they wrote about my aomin entries on Michuta's book back in May, so I'm not sure exactly what Madrid is talking about. Yes, I read Envoy. Big deal.

I really don't have anything to add to this, other than what I've stated. The video, posted by Madrid (earlier without qualification) on Purgatory was awful. But, more offensive was watching the Simpsons bounce Jesus Christ on a mock-trampoline. If Roman Catholics like this stuff, fine. I do not.

The impenetrable Envoy fortress has been lobbing rhetoric at me for my latest postings reviewing Gary Michuta’s book, Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger. I think the Envoy Forums could use an overhaul, so I would like to suggest they use this picture for their logo.

Hey Phil Porvaznik

I don't know if you read this blog, but I saw your post on this thread. You said:

"My references were accurate, I just double-checked.[Swan: "this comment found only on page 85"] Wrong, page 84-85 (volume 2) is correct. Don't know what Swan is looking at. I got the volumes shortly after they came out, maybe Swan has a later edition."

The Catholics Answers forum discussion thread provided this quote:

"Such statements [regarding the unhistorical nature of sola Scriptura] manifest an ignorance of the patristic and medieval perspective on the authority of Scripture. Scripture alone as the infallible rule for the ongoing life and faith of the Church was the universal belief and practice of the Church of the patristic and medieval ages. " (volume 2 by William Webster, page 84-85)"

In my copy of Holy Scripture Vol II, this quote begins on the bottom of page 85, last paragraph, 6th line from the bottom.

Have a nice day.

Keith Green Visits the Envoy Boards

The late Keith Green was a contemporary Christian singer/songwriter from the late 1970, early 1980’s. Keith died some years back in a plane crash. I had not realized that Keith wrote a document entitled, The Catholic Chronicles. The Catholic folks over at Envoy have begun discussing his views, Envoy style:

“It would appear on closer scrutiny (just read the "Chronicles") that Keith, however sincere, was sincerely misguided at best, or a down-right theological bonehead in complete rebellion to Christ's Church at worst.”

“We must always remember that Protestantism in all of its forms is derived from disobedience and rebellion against the Church and authority that God himself established. As such, every Protestant is rightly threatened by the claims of the Catholic Church. To preserve their man-made religions they must attack our God-founded one.”

Well, I don’t really have a horse in this race. I just found this topic interesting, as I remember Keith’s music. Some of what Keith said is right on the money:

"The Council of Trent, in its opposition to the reformer's doctrine of justification by faith, and in defense of its doctrine of penance, declared: "Whoever shall affirm that men are justified solely by the imputation of the righteousness of Christ... let him be accursed" (Council of Trent, section 6.) And the Catholic Almanac says, "Penance is necessary for salvation...and was instituted by Christ for the forgiveness of sins". (pp. 269, 559.) The modern church teachings completely concur: "Many things are necessary for salvation. All these things work together faith, baptism, the Eucharist, the doing of good works, and others as well. Redemption is one thing, salvation is quite another. There is nothing lacking on Christ's part; there is much to be done on ours."("The Apostles Creed" published by the Knights of Columbus, pp 18-19.)