Sunday, June 09, 2013

Luther: The Roman Church is Basically Christian?

This post is a follow-up to these entries:

Luther: I honor the Roman Church. She is pious, has God’s Word and Baptism, and is holy

Myth #11: Luther thought that the Roman Church was no longer a true Christian Church

Luther: Are Those Who Defend the Roman Church Christians?

I recently re-read Luther's "Concerning Rebaptism" (1528) [LW 40:225-262]. It's an open letter in which Luther is apparently responding to two pastors in a Roman Catholic diocese that had asked him for help in dealing with anabaptist argumentation.  One could read through this letter and think Luther was espousing a full-fledged ecumenical spirit with Roman Catholicism in general. Rather though, the document demonstrates that while the papacy (and those under the papacy) with the Lutherans (and even the anabaptists) share an inheritance of Christianity, Luther still advised that those under the papacy should flee the papacy. The papacy "is a work of wrath from which to flee, as other plagues also are works of God, but works of wrath and displeasure" (LW 40:256].

Some could read this document and think Luther considered all papists as fellow Christians. For instance, consider the following selective statements from Luther's open letter:

We on our part confess that there is much that is Christian and good under the papacy; indeed everything that is Christian and good is to be found there and has come to us from this source. For instance we confess that in the papal church there are the true holy Scriptures, true baptism, the true sacrament of the altar, the true keys to the forgiveness of sins, the true office of the ministry, the true catechism in the form of the Lord's Prayer, the Ten Commandments, and the articles of the creed . . . I speak of what the pope and we have in common . . . I contend that in the papacy there is true Christianity, even the right kind of Christianity and many great and devoted saints.

. . . The Christendom that now is under the papacy is truly the body of Christ and a member of it. If it is his body, then it has the true spirit, gospel, faith, baptism, sacrament, keys, the office of the ministry, prayer, holy Scripture, and everything that pertains to Christendom. So we are all still under the papacy and therefrom have received our Christian treasures.

. . . We do not rave as do the rebellious spirits, so as to reject everything that is found in the papal church. For then we would cast out even Christendom from the temple of God, and all that it contained of Christ.

I've dealt with this context before.  I'd like to suggest that these comments, when placed back in their context, do not imply that those who knowingly defend the papacy are fellow Christians. Luther is not suggesting that any similarities he and the papists share bonds them together as Christian brothers with differences to be debated but not divided over.

What's fascinating about these comments is that Luther makes them under the guise of "appearing to be a papist again and flattering the pope" (LW 40:231). In this context, Luther speaks of how the pope "dissembles" his position towards the Lutherans, and how he likewise will "dissemble" his position on the papacy. To dissemble is to "Conceal one's true motives, feelings, or beliefs" or "Disguise or conceal (a feeling or intention)." Luther says that this is done by pointing out what is shared in common. Look at the full quote:
In the first place I hear and see that such rebaptism is undertaken by some in order to spite the pope and to be free of any taint of the Antichrist. In the same way the foes of the sacrament want to believe only in bread and wine, in opposition to the pope, thinking thereby really to overthrow the papacy. It is indeed a shaky foundation on which they can build nothing good. On that basis we would have to disown the whole of Scripture and the office of the ministry, which of course we have received from the papacy. We would also have to make a new Bible. Then, also, we would have to disavow the Old Testament, so that we would be under no obligation to the unbelieving Jews. And why the daily use of gold and goods which have been used by bad people, papists, Turks, and heretics? This, too, should be surrendered, if they are not to have anything good from evil persons.
The whole thing is nonsense. Christ himself came upon the errors of scribes and Pharisees among the Jewish people, but he did not on that account reject everything they had and thought (Matt. 23[:3]). We on our part confess that there is much that is Christian and good under the papacy; indeed everything that is Christian and good is to be found there and has come to us from this source. For instance we confess that in the papal church there are the true holy Scriptures, true baptism, the true sacrament of the altar, the true keys to the forgiveness of sins, the true office of the ministry, the true catechism in the form of the Lord’s Prayer, the Ten Commandments, and the articles of the creed. Similarly, the pope admits that we too, though condemned by him as heretics, and likewise all heretics, have the holy Scriptures, baptism, the keys, the catechism, etc. O how do you dissemble? How then do I dissemble? I speak of what the pope and we have in common. He on his part dissembles toward us and heretics and plainly admits what we and he have in common. I will continue to so dissemble, though it does me no good. I contend that in the papacy there is true Christianity, even the right kind of Christianity and many great and devoted saints. Shall I cease to make this pretense? [LW 40:231-232]
The comparison of the scribes and Pharisees to the papacy is quite telling. Yes, within the papacy there is "true Christianity" if one speaks of what is shared in common, but it would be a mistake to think that by the things shared in common Luther believed devout papists were fellow-Christians. Luther goes on to point out that the pope was the Antichrist:
Listen to what St. Paul says to the Thessalonians [II Thess. 2:4]: “The Antichrist takes his seat in the temple of God.” If now the pope is (and I cannot believe otherwise) the veritable Antichrist, he will not sit or reign in the devil’s stall, but in the temple of God. No, he will not sit where there are only devils and unbelievers, or where no Christ or Christendom exist. For he is an Antichrist and must thus be among Christians. And since he is to sit and reign there it is necessary that there be Christians under him. God’s temple is not the description for a pile of stones, but for the holy Christendom (I Cor. 3[:17]), in which he is to reign. The Christendom that now is under the papacy is truly the body of Christ and a member of it. If it is his body, then it has the true spirit, gospel, faith, baptism, sacrament, keys, the office of the ministry, prayer, holy Scripture, and everything that pertains to Christendom. So we are all still under the papacy and therefrom have received our Christian treasures.
As a veritable Antichrist must conduct himself against Christendom, so the pope acts toward us: he persecutes us, curses us, bans us, pursues us, burns us, puts us to death. Christians need indeed to be truly baptized and right members of Christ if they are to win the victory in death over against the Antichrist. We do not rave as do the rebellious spirits, so as to reject everything that is found in the papal church. For then we would east out even Christendom from the temple of God, and all that it contained of Christ. But when we oppose and reject the pope it is because he does not keep to these treasures of Christendom which he has inherited from the apostles. Instead he makes additions of the devil and does not use these treasures for the improvement of the temple. Rather he works toward its destruction, in setting his commandments and ordinances above the ordinance of Christ. But Christ preserves his Christendom even in the midst of such destruction, just as he rescued Lot at Sodom, as St. Peter recounts (I Pet. 2 [II Pet. 2:6]). In fact both remain, the Antichrist sits in the temple of God through the action of the devil, while the temple still is and remains the temple of God through the power of Christ. If the pope will suffer and accept this dissembling of mine, then I am and will be, to be sure, an obedient son and devoted papist, with a truly joyful heart, and take back everything that I have done to harm him. (LW 40:232-233)
Luther's next comment points out that those under the papacy are in grave danger of losing their souls. He expresses this by pointing out that when the anabaptists argue against the traditional understanding of the sacraments, they are taking away a means those under the papacy can use to save their souls:
In fact they remind us of what one brother in the forest of Thuringia did to the other. They were going through the woods with each other when they were set upon by a bear who threw one of them beneath him. The other brother sought to help and struck at the bear, but missed him and grievously wounded the brother under the bear. So these enthusiasts. They ought to come to the aid of Christendom which Antichrist has in his grip and tortures. They take a severe stand against the pope, but they miss their mark and murder the more terribly the Christendom under the pope. For if they would permit baptism and the sacrament of the altar to stand as they are, Christians under the pope might yet escape with their souls and be saved, as has been the case hitherto. But now when the sacraments are taken from them, they will most likely be lost, since even Christ himself is thereby taken away. Dear friend, this is not the way to blast the papacy while Christian saints are in his keeping. One needs a more cautious, discreet spirit, which attacks the accretion which threatens the temple without destroying the temple of God itself. (LW 40: 233-234).
In other words, without the sacraments, what the papacy teaches does not save. If salvation comes to those in the Roman church of Luther's day, it was despite the papacy. Luther goes on to point out that the papacy was a persecutor of the gospel and Christians:
Thirdly, [the papacy] is not a work of God. For he exercises no office to the welfare of his subjects. Indeed, he persecutes the gospel and Christians, let alone that he ought to be a teacher and guardian. He only teaches his filth and poison as human notions, discards the gospel, even persecutes it, though without avail. He makes a sacrifice out of the sacrament, faith out of works, work out of faith. He forbids marriage, [and issues prohibitions concerning] food, seasons, clothes, and places, tie perverts and abuses all Christian treasures to the injury of souls, as we have sufficiently proved elsewhere. Since on all three counts the papacy is deficient, we must judge it as a pure human invention, which is not worthy of belief and is in no way comparable to the institutions of parenthood and government (LW 40:238-239).
Luther goes on to state:
For where we see the work of God we should yield and believe in the same way as when we hear his Word, unless the plain Scripture tells us otherwise. I indeed am ready to let the papacy be considered as a work of God. But since Scripture is against it, I consider it as a work of God but not as a work of grace. It is a work of wrath from which to flee, as other plagues also are works of God, but works of wrath and displeasure (LW 40:266).
Conclusion
When Luther spoke of the Roman Church, he had something much different in mind than most people do today. Luther made a sharp distinction between the Roman Church and the Papacy. Of Rome's leadership, Luther states:
Can anything be said that is more horrible than that the kingdom of the papists is the kingdom of those who spit upon and recrucify Christ, the Son of God? Christ, who once was crucified and rose again—Him they crucify in themselves and in the church, that is, in the hearts of the faithful. With their rebukes, slanders, and insults they spit at Him; and with their false opinions they pierce Him through, so that He dies most miserably in them. And in His place they erect a beautiful bewitchment, by which men are so demented that they do not acknowledge Christ as the Justifier, Propitiator, and Savior but think of Him as a minister of sin, an accuser, a judge, and a condemner, who must be placated by our works and merit. [LW 26:199-200].
Therefore let anyone who is seriously concerned about godliness flee this Babylon as quickly as possible, and let him be horrified at the very hearing of the name of the papacy. For its wickedness and abomination are so great that no one can describe them in words or evaluate them except with spiritual eyes [LW 26:201].
For Luther, the papacy was something from which one should flee. Luther's opinion appears to be in part that since the Roman Church was given the scriptures, sacraments, etc.,  in that sense she is a Christian church. However, these elements functions quite independently from the Roman magisterium. No analogy is perfect, but if I had to describe Luther's position I would do so like this: The Roman church is like a pristine ship that's been commandeered by pirates. The ship still functions, but it's crew is in bondage to her captors. Some of the crew mutinies and joins the pirates. Others though, maintain allegiance to her rightful captain.

Luther concludes Concerning Rebaptism by stating, "Christ has faithfully stood by our side up to this point and will continue to trod Satan under our foot. He will protect you all against the seductions of your tyrant and Antichrist and mercifully help us to gain his freedom" (LW 40:262). Apparently, Luther thought these Roman pastors held allegiance to the rightful captain.

So for Luther, is the Roman church basically Christian? I can certainly understand why Luther, looking at the church of his day thought so. On the other hand, Luther certainly considered those who defend papalism as apostates. Consider his strong statement from 1541:
Here they might say and probably will say, “Why do you depict us shamefully as a new, apostate church, when we have baptism, the sacrament, the keys, the creed, and the gospels, just like the ancient church from which we derive? Haven’t you already admitted above that we, as well as you, derive from the ancient church?” I answer, “It is true, I admit, that the church in which you sit derives from the ancient church as well as we, and that you have the same baptism, the sacraments, the keys, and the text of the Bible and gospels. I will praise you even further and admit that we have received everything from the church before you (not from you). What more do you want? Are we not devout enough? Will you not call us henceforth unheretical? We do not regard you as Turks and Jews (as was said above) who are outside the church. But we say you do not remain in it but become the erring, apostate, whorelike church (as the prophets used to call it), which does not remain in the church, where it was born and brought up. You run away from this church and from your true husband and bridegroom (as Hosea says of the people of Israel [Hos. 1:2]) to the devil Baal, to Molech and Astaroth. Do you understand that?” I will explain. You were indeed all baptized in the true baptism of the ancient church, just as we were, especially as children. Now if a baptized child lives and then dies in his seventh or eighth year, before he understands the whorelike church of the pope, he has in truth been saved and will be saved—of that we have no doubt. But when he grows up, and hears, believes, and obeys your preaching with its lies and devilish innovations, then he becomes a whore of the devil like you and falls away from his baptism and bridegroom—as happened to me and others—building and relying on his own works, which is what you whoremongers preach in your brothels and devil’s churches; whereas, by contrast, the child is baptized to rely and build on his one dear bridegroom and Lord, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us. It is as if a devout man were to bring up a poor, young, servant beggar girl as his future bride and become betrothed to her, and she were to keep herself pure until she came to womanhood, and then turn her attentions elsewhere and look at other men who pleased her better, and let herself be persuaded by them and become passionately desirous of them, thus abandoning her true, devoted bridegroom, who had rescued, nourished, educated, clothed, adorned, and treated her well, and let herself be made a whore by everyone. This whore, who before was a pure virgin and dear bride, is now an apostate, erring, married whore, a house-whore, a bed-whore, a key-whore, being the mistress of the house, having the key, the bed, the kitchen, the cellar, and everything at her command. Yet she is so evil that beside her the common unattached whores, the pimp-whores, the whores of the field, the country, and the army are almost holy. For she is the true arch-whore and the true whore of the devil.
Of such a whore Hosea speaks, and Ezekiel indeed does so much more coarsely, in fact almost too coarsely, in chapter 23. You should read that if you want to know what kind of a whore your church is. For this is what I mean when I call you an apostate, erring whore—you who were baptized as children in the dear Lord and even lived some years like the ancient church. But when you grew up and reached the age of reason (as I and everyone else have done), you saw and heard the lovely ceremonies of the papal church, and also its glittering profit, honor, and power, yes, its magnificent holiness, the mighty worship, and all the yarns about the kingdom of heaven. Then you forgot your Christian faith, baptism, and sacrament, becoming the diligent pupils and young little whores (as the comedies say) the procuresses, the arch-whores, until you old whores once more make young whores. Thus the church of the pope, indeed, the church of the devil, grew, transforming many of Christ’s young virgins, who were born in baptism, into arch-whores. This, I hold, should be said in German, so that you and everyone can understand what we mean. For if you hold these innovations of yours to be a joke—you who neither have a God nor honor him—then it is something terrible and abominable before God. It is idolatry, murder, hell, and every calamity, which God cannot bear, so that he will damn the arch-whore for eternity. St. Peter prophesies about that when he speaks of you, that is, of such new prophets and churches in II Peter 2 [:18–19], “For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped, and who must now walk in error. They promise them freedom, forgiveness, and indulgences, but they themselves are slaves of corruption.” And again, “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, the dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire” [II Pet. 2:19–22]. That is what you are, and that is what I was. There you have your new apostate erring church sufficiently described in German and portrayed clearly enough for you to see. We acknowledge not only that you have, with us, come from the true church and been washed and made clean in baptism through the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, as St. Peter says here, but also that you are in the church and remain in it. Indeed, we say that you sit and rule in it as St. Paul prophesied in II Thessalonians 2 [:3–4], that the accursed Antichrist would sit (not in the cowshed), but in the temple of God. But you are no longer of the church, or members of the church, for in this holy church of God you are building your own new apostate church, the devil’s brothel with limitless whoredom, idolatry, and innovation, by which you corrupt those who have been baptized and redeemed along with yourselves. And you swallow them down through the jaws of hell into the abyss of hell itself, with a countless multitude, along with the terrible wailing and deep sorrow of those who see this with spiritual eyes and recognize it. (LW 41:207-210)
What are the ramifications of Luther's view for Protestants today? Luther considering the Roman church to be basically Christian in some respects is not the same thing as Luther considering zealous defenders of Rome to be basically Christian. To confuse this is to dissemble, the very thing Luther pointed out in Concerning Rebaptism. In other words, if a zealous defender of Rome selectively uses Luther's words as a basis to promote inter-faith dialog between Romanism and Protestantism, Luther would consider such a person to be a papist, and in danger of hell.

I've been asked from time to time if I think Roman Catholics are fellow Christians. It certainly is possible that God has preserved a remnant of believers within the Roman church despite Trent's anathematizing the Gospel.  On the other hand, of those who zealously defend Rome, I do not consider these people to be Christians.  I think such people are those who need to be either evangelized or refuted. Luther refers to Rome's defenders as a "breed of men condemned long ago, with corrupted minds [1 Tim. 6:5]" (LW 60:216) .

Wednesday, June 05, 2013

Luther: Are Those Who Defend the Roman Church Christians?

An interesting study is Luther's change in attitude to the Roman Church and those who remain in her. I've covered this topic before: Myth #11: Luther thought that the Roman Church was no longer a true Christian Church.

As a supplement, here's a quote from Luther from 1541. These are strong words from Luther directed at those who defend the Papacy:
Here they might say and probably will say, “Why do you depict us shamefully as a new, apostate church, when we have baptism, the sacrament, the keys, the creed, and the gospels, just like the ancient church from which we derive? Haven’t you already admitted above that we, as well as you, derive from the ancient church?” I answer, “It is true, I admit, that the church in which you sit derives from the ancient church as well as we, and that you have the same baptism, the sacraments, the keys, and the text of the Bible and gospels. I will praise you even further and admit that we have received everything from the church before you (not from you). What more do you want? Are we not devout enough? Will you not call us henceforth unheretical? We do not regard you as Turks and Jews (as was said above) who are outside the church. But we say you do not remain in it but become the erring, apostate, whorelike church (as the prophets used to call it), which does not remain in the church, where it was born and brought up. You run away from this church and from your true husband and bridegroom (as Hosea says of the people of Israel [Hos. 1:2]) to the devil Baal, to Molech and Astaroth. Do you understand that?” I will explain.
You were indeed all baptized in the true baptism of the ancient church, just as we were, especially as children. Now if a baptized child lives and then dies in his seventh or eighth year, before he understands the whorelike church of the pope, he has in truth been saved and will be saved—of that we have no doubt. But when he grows up, and hears, believes, and obeys your preaching with its lies and devilish innovations, then he becomes a whore of the devil like you and falls away from his baptism and bridegroom—as happened to me and others—building and relying on his own works, which is what you whoremongers preach in your brothels and devil’s churches; whereas, by contrast, the child is baptized to rely and build on his one dear bridegroom and Lord, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us. It is as if a devout man were to bring up a poor, young, servant beggar girl as his future bride and become betrothed to her, and she were to keep herself pure until she came to womanhood, and then turn her attentions elsewhere and look at other men who pleased her better, and let herself be persuaded by them and become passionately desirous of them, thus abandoning her true, devoted bridegroom, who had rescued, nourished, educated, clothed, adorned, and treated her well, and let herself be made a whore by everyone. This whore, who before was a pure virgin and dear bride, is now an apostate, erring, married whore, a house-whore, a bed-whore, a key-whore, being the mistress of the house, having the key, the bed, the kitchen, the cellar, and everything at her command. Yet she is so evil that beside her the common unattached whores, the pimp-whores, the whores of the field, the country, and the army are almost holy. For she is the true arch-whore and the true whore of the devil.
Of such a whore Hosea speaks, and Ezekiel indeed does so much more coarsely, in fact almost too coarsely, in chapter 23. You should read that if you want to know what kind of a whore your church is. For this is what I mean when I call you an apostate, erring whore—you who were baptized as children in the dear Lord and even lived some years like the ancient church. But when you grew up and reached the age of reason (as I and everyone else have done), you saw and heard the lovely ceremonies of the papal church, and also its glittering profit, honor, and power, yes, its magnificent holiness, the mighty worship, and all the yarns about the kingdom of heaven. Then you forgot your Christian faith, baptism, and sacrament, becoming the diligent pupils and young little whores (as the comedies say) the procuresses, the arch-whores, until you old whores once more make young whores. Thus the church of the pope, indeed, the church of the devil, grew, transforming many of Christ’s young virgins, who were born in baptism, into arch-whores. This, I hold, should be said in German, so that you and everyone can understand what we mean. For if you hold these innovations of yours to be a joke—you who neither have a God nor honor him—then it is something terrible and abominable before God. It is idolatry, murder, hell, and every calamity, which God cannot bear, so that he will damn the arch-whore for eternity.
St. Peter prophesies about that when he speaks of you, that is, of such new prophets and churches in II Peter 2 [:18–19], “For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped, and who must now walk in error. They promise them freedom, forgiveness, and indulgences, but they themselves are slaves of corruption.” And again, “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, the dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire” [II Pet. 2:19–22]. That is what you are, and that is what I was. There you have your new apostate erring church sufficiently described in German and portrayed clearly enough for you to see. We acknowledge not only that you have, with us, come from the true church and been washed and made clean in baptism through the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, as St. Peter says here, but also that you are in the church and remain in it. Indeed, we say that you sit and rule in it as St. Paul prophesied in II Thessalonians 2 [:3–4], that the accursed Antichrist would sit (not in the cowshed), but in the temple of God. But you are no longer of the church, or members of the church, for in this holy church of God you are building your own new apostate church, the devil’s brothel with limitless whoredom, idolatry, and innovation, by which you corrupt those who have been baptized and redeemed along with yourselves. And you swallow them down through the jaws of hell into the abyss of hell itself, with a countless multitude, along with the terrible wailing and deep sorrow of those who see this with spiritual eyes and recognize it.
Luther, M. (1999, c1966). Vol. 41: Luther's works, vol. 41 : Church and Ministry III (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald and H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (41:207). Philadelphia: Fortress Press.

Tuesday, June 04, 2013

Luther on Calvin in Geneva: "With a death sentence they solve all argumentation"

A few weeks ago, I came across a quote in which Luther is said to have commented on Calvin and Geneva: "With a death sentence they solve all argumentation."  Here's the typical way the quote is cited on the Internet:

Martin Luther said of Calvin's actions in Geneva, "With a death sentence they solve all argumentation" (Juergan L. Neve, A History of Christian Thought, vol. I, p. 285).

The quote certainly sounded like something Luther would say, but historically it didn't sound like something he would say about Calvin or Geneva.  Calvin didn't get to Geneva till 1536. Then he left in 1538, and then returned in 1541, and stayed till the end of his life (1564). Calvin's time in Geneva did overlap Luther's life (Luther died in 1546), and there were instance of severe punishment in Geneva during these overlapping years. On the other hand, Luther said very little about John Calvin, and what he did say about Calvin was typically a passing comment. For instance, in 1539 Luther states in a letter "Farewell, and please greet reverently Mr. John Sturm and John Calvin; I have read their books with special pleasure" (LW 50:191). I'm not aware of any instances of Luther explicitly referring to capital punishment in Geneva, and in fact, a basic search for the word "Geneva" in the English edition of Luther's Works returned no instances of Luther using the word "Geneva." As it turns out, this quote is something Luther said, but it has nothing to do with Calvin or Geneva.

Documentation
The book cited, "Juergan L. Neve, A History of Christian Thought" was not available online, so I purchased it. Note first of all, Neve's first name is often misspelled when it's referenced for this quote (it should be "Juergen"). Neve was a Lutheran (but ironically, the used copy I purchased has the imprint, "From the library of Father Thomas, please return to his study"). You can find at least one of his other books on-line. Thumbing through the book, it appears to have decent documentation, so flipping to page 285, I expected to figure out exactly what was going on with this quote. Neve states,
Calvin's mistake was his refusal to recognize the freedom of conscience. In his dealing with teachers of false doctrine within the Church, Christ speaks of excommunication after previous brotherly admonition; but neither He nor the apostles have commanded that they are to be put to death. Calvin's practice was a return to medieval methods which Luther had characterized ironically with the remark: "With a death sentence they solve all argumentation" (Mit dem Tode losenn sie alle Argumente). Luther admitted that there might be cases where in the interest of tranquility troublesome persons may be banished from the country. But he was opposed to bodily punishment for heresy. [61] These were his words: "Heresy can never be restrained with force. It must be grasped in another way. This is not the sort of battle that can be settled with thee sword. The weapon here to be used is God's Word. If that does not decide, the decision will not be effected by worldly force, though it should drench the whole world with blood. Heresy is a thing of the soul; no steel can cut it out, no waters can drown it.
[61] Luther wrote to Brenz, 1529: Man soll keine falschen Lehrer toeten; es ist genug, dass man sie verweise. We must not kill false teachers; it is enough to send them out of the country. Enders, Luther's Correspondence, 7, 211.
Without going into tedious detail, Neve did not document the quote he attributed to Luther, "With a death sentence they solve all argumentation."  None of the references or clues in this paragraph provide anything to actually point a person to where the quote originated from. Before someone concludes that this Lutheran writer simply made a historical error, whoever originally cited this section from Neve actually misunderstood the author's point. Neve was not saying that Luther was describing Calvin. Rather, Neve was stating that Luther's description of "medieval methods" was similar to what Neve thought of Calvin's methods in Geneva. Granted, it's very easy to see how someone could misinterpret Neve's sentence.  It wasn't Luther describing Calvin, it was Neve using Luther to describe his own interpretation of Calvin. If Neve is guilty of anything, it's for not providing documentation.

Context
So where does this quote come from? If it has nothing to do with Calvin or Geneva, who was Luther writing about? Yes, you guessed it, Luther was writing about "the papists in Rome." The quote most likely comes from a 1520 treatise from Luther entitled, Von den neuen Eckischen Bullen und Lügen (On Eck's new Bulls and Lies). A brief historical account of this writing can be found here. To my knowledge, this writing has not been translated into English. The German text can be found in WA 6 beginning on page 579. The quote in question is on page 582:
Ich halt, dass Ketzer vorbrennen daher kumm, dass sie furchten, sie kunnten sie mit Schriften nit ubirwinden; gleichwie die Papisten zu Rom, wenn sie nit mugen der Wahrheit widerstahn, wurgen sie die Leut, und mit dem Tod solviren sie alle Argument. Ein solcher Vorfechter der Wahrheit wäre mein Doctor Eck auch gerne.
Here Luther says the "papists in Rome"  are those who use a death as a way to solve an argument. Luther goes on to assert Eck was just such a person.

Addendum
I've gone over Luther's view concerning the death penalty. See my article, Reviewing a Romanist's Use of Roland Bainton's "Here I Stand."

Monday, June 03, 2013

Clever satire exposing heresies of the Trinity

I thought this was clever and funny:



Since the Trinity is unique and the incarnation of the Son of God is unique, no analogy can fully illustrate the Trinity, or "Trinitas Unitas" or the incarnation and hypostatic union.  (the point made by James White, in his excellent critique of William Lane Craig using the Greek mythology three-headed dog of Cerberus for the Trinity and the modern movie of Avatar as an illustration of the incarnation and hypostatic union of the 2 natures of Christ.

HT:  From a Lutheran blogger.  (John the Lutheran)

Which I discovered by looking at a Conservative Anglican blogger who goes by Cranmer, here.   (Which I discovered by debating Muslims, when the issue came up that churches are dying in England and Muslims with lots of oil wealth from Saudi and Kuwait are buying up old and dead churches. )

About the Cranmer blog:  It is nice to see a conservative Anglican who believes in historic Christianity, and condemns racism, hatred, and bigotry; and also condemns political correctness; and also stands for Christian morality and conservative Christian positions in political matters.  Refreshing!

Have the Nephilim Been Found?

Be careful what you find on the Internet! See: They Might Be Giants from Snopes.





Sunday, June 02, 2013

"Pope Francis Calls All Catholics to Evangelize"

"Pope Francis Calls All Catholics to Evangelize" is a web article recently published by Crisis Magazine reviewing some comments made by the Pope. While the Pope's comments say one thing, the article from Crisis Magazine moves the Pope's comments in a different direction. Skim through the Crisis Magazine article with this question in mind: what exactly are potential converts being "evangelized" to?

One doesn't need to go far into the article for the answer to this question:
"While it is certainly true that all roads lead to Rome, there is something to be said for all those other roads leading out from Rome. In other words, before we set out on the road to Rome, shouldn’t there be something already in place, in Rome, the gravitational pull of which first radiates out to the world? Only then may it draw the distant and weary traveler back home to Rome."
And also:
"Rome is the Inn at the world’s end. And we do not love her, as Chesterton wisely reminded us, because she is great. It is rather because she is loved that she is great. Ah, but in order to be loved she must first be lovely, and thus in her loveliness she goes out in search of other people to love. This is why her immediate impulse must always be to build bridges, not walls. First she goes out in search of the lost sheep, putting down bridges so as to reach them; only later does she throw up walls to surround and protect them from wolves."
The article goes on to cite Mathew 28:19-20 as being in harmony with converting people to "Rome" and wonders why Roman Catholics "seem so strangely, stubbornly resistant to the idea, the injunction actually, to go out and spread the Good News." And also, "Thus to evangelize is not just a task undertaken from time to time; or even most of the time. It is, to put it simply, the Church’s defining identity; it is what she exists for." But an equivocation occurs off and on throughout the article that evangelism is "testifying to Jesus Christ." But ultimately, the evangelism of the article is to join the Roman church. The author cites Pope Francis stating, “Those who are well mannered, who do everything well, but are unable to bring people to the Church through proclamation and Apostolic zeal.”

The article goes on to mention the apostle Paul:
"How very unlike the Apostle Paul, who could not even bring himself to boast about his own preaching since to do so was nothing more than an exigency inscribed in the gospels themselves. “Woe to me if I do not evangelize” (1 Cor 9:16)."
Yet, when one reads Paul, one does not find him preaching that one must join the Roman church. Even in 1 Cor. 9:16, Paul's zeal in evangelism is "so that by all possible means I might save some." This is where Rome's push for their version of evangelism breaks down, because for the most part, when they're calling a wayward Protestant or an Eastern Orthodox person back to Rome, they aren't saving them.  The Catholic Catechism states:
However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."
Since the Roman church thinks they're the dispensers of grace, whatever truth about Jesus Christ that any non-Romanist has is being mediated through... the Roman church. The Catechism states:
"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church.
Now frankly, this smacks of arrogance. Isn't a Roman "evangelist" ultimately speaking down to you when they attempt to evangelize you? They have 100% of the truth, you have whatever has been filtered out through the Roman church, and have it in some sort of inferior way. You may have "the written Word of God" but you don't have it in its fullness. You may have "the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity" but it's only a half-life, or perhaps worse depending on how far away you are from Rome's current understanding of things. The "interior gifts of the Holy Spirit"... would you have more of the Holy Spirit if you join Rome? Show me any verse in the Bible that validates these statements from the Catechism.

Such articles like this recent offering from Crisis Magazine are good reminders that Rome's defenders often mean something very different when they speak of evangelism. Such an article is also a perfect example as to why I stand so strongly against Roman Catholic apologetics.  Their primary goal is conversion to a church hierarchy, not Jesus Christ.  

Tuesday, May 28, 2013

Catholic Answers, Let Me Introduce You to: Orthodox Answers

I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise that there is a website named, Orthodox Answers.

What is Orthodox Answers

We are a partnership of Orthodox Christians working together to provide sound answers to any questions you may have about the Orthodox Faith. We contribute our time and effort to try and make sure that there are good resources available to those who have questions about Orthodoxy. We hope you can sense the love of God in our work of apologetics.
This website includes answers for (in this order):

Roman Catholics
Evangelicals
Calvinists
Atheists

On the Roman Catholic page appears the following:
We recommend that you take some time to read the stories of people who have converted from Roman Catholicism to Orthodoxy.  Hearing from those who have been down this same path, working through the same questions and challenges as you, is a powerful witness to the truth of Orthodoxy.  You are definitely not alone in your journey. 

And well, just like Catholic Answers, Orthodox Answers wants to make sure to provide answers to none other than.... James White.  And of course:
We recommend that you take some time to read the stories of people who have converted from Calvinist Protestantism to Orthodoxy.  Hearing from those who have been down this same path, working through the same questions and challenges as you, is a powerful witness to the truth of Orthodoxy.  You are definitely not alone in your journey.

Addendum
Here's an interesting quote from an advocate of Eastern Orthodoxy on the CARM boards:

Many Orthodox love to believe that the RCC is a few cups of coffee away from complete doctrinal unity, but as an ex-RCCer, I know better. The sheer volume of things the RCC would need to repent of at the church level, not to mention the individual level of all her clergy, is staggering. So many truths have been lost, the RCC would have to collectively spend years unlearning what it has invented, and then more years catching up to the Holy Spirit revealed truth. The entire Western concept of salvation would have to be almost completely dismantled. The Catholic Catechism would have to go, along with the Magisterium, the college of cardinals, the jesuits, most of the ministries, and then all of the various errors that have crept in to each of the liberal Catholic churches that have sprouted up across the globe over the past few centuries would have to be dealt with as well. Even the Eastern Catholics would have to unlearn and relearn quite a bit. All of this would have to be entered into prayerfully, fearfully, and reverently. The reintroduction of icons in the West would certainly be a big step and would help immensely with the reeducation part.


Monday, May 27, 2013

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 6) The Intercession of Mary

I've been intrigued by the alleged "Mariology" of the Reformers for years because of the argumentation of Roman Catholic apologists. I recently came across Wikipedia's John Calvin's views on Mary entry. I didn't get far into the entry before I came across a few facts that appeared odd. Not everything though in the article is suspect, as will be demonstrated below. Previous entries are as follows:

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 1)

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 2)

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 3) Perpetual Virginity

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 4) Calvin Did Not Refer to Mary as "Mother of God"?

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 5) Immaculate Conception

The wiki article makes some good points on Calvin denying the role of Mary and the saints in salvation. This section from the Wiki article, while not helpfully documented, does demonstrate how different Calvin's views on Mary were as compared to the Roman Church of his day:
Calvin's soteriology was grounded in the belief that Christ alone is sufficient for salvation. He regarded any opposition to this doctrine as "pure defiance",[12] and consequently denied any notion of Mary as a participant in the mystery of salvation. He rejected the Roman Catholic belief that Mary acts as a mediator between man and God as idolatry, since only Christ can fulfill this role.[13] Calvin forbade prayers and supplications to Mary for the same reason, further arguing that praying to the dead is not a practice supported by Scripture.[14]
What's unfortunate is that the documentation is unhelpful. Footnote #12 simply refers to a French phrase. Footnote #13 refers to "Quant a L’intercession de la vierge Marie et des Saincts trespasses, revenez tousiours a ce principe, que cw n’est pas point a nous faire des Advocats in Paradies, mais a dieu, lequel a ordinne Jesus Christ un seul piur tous, Ep 1438, Vol 14,21."  This appears to be a reference to a 1551 letter to Richard Le Fevre. There Calvin states,
Concerning the intercession of the Virgin Mary and departed saints, come back always to this principle, that it is not for us to appoint advocates in paradise, but for God, who has ordained Jesus Christ a single one for all. Also, that our prayers ought to be offered up in faith, and therefore ordered by the word of God, as saith St. Paul in Romans 10. Now, it is certain, that throughout the word of God there is not a single syllable of what they say; wherefore all their prayers are profane and displeasing to him. If they further reply to you, that it is not forbidden to us, the answer is easy: that it is forbidden to us to set about anything according to our own proper fancy, yea, in matters of far less moment; but above all, that prayer is a most high privilege, and too sacred to be directed according to our fantasy. Nay more, they cannot deny that their having recourse to the saints arises from pure distrust that Jesus Christ alone would be sufficient for them.
The later part of the quote discussing prayers to the dead is from a source that's not available to me, Algermissen's article on Calivn in Marienlexikon. Such sentiment from Calvin is easily documented from the Institutes:
When my adversaries, therefore, raise against me the objection that prayers for the dead have been a custom for thirteen hundred years, I ask them, in turn, by what word of God, by what revelation, by what example, is this done? Not only are testimonies of Scripture lacking on this point, but all examples of the saints that one may there read of show no such thing (III.5.10).
The Wiki article goes on to assert:
[Calvin] regarded the Catholic belief that Mary can intercede on behalf of the dead to be "nothing but blasphemy" ("exsecrabilis blasphemia"), on the basis that only God has the authority to determine the amount of grace given to each individual in his divine will. He therefore did not condone praying to Mary for the salvation of dead sinners, as their eternal fate was already sealed long before creation.[14]
The documentation once again refers to Algermissen's article on Calivn in Marienlexikon. It's very possible the reference is to The Articles Agreed Upon by the Faculty of Sacred Theology in Paris (1542). There Calvin states,
For the Sorbonnists, who so often make mention of their herd, (gregis,) have here proved, that they are a herd of swine. That invocation of the Virgin which they have hitherto used in seeking the grace of the Spirit, who sees not to be execrable blasphemy? to say nothing of those titles full of anathema, by which, while they would honor the Virgin, they most grievously insult her, calling her “the Queen of Heaven, and Treasury of Grace.” We hear how Christ tells us, that he will send the Spirit of truth from the Father, and bids us ask in his own name, (John 14:26; 15:26.) This, therefore, is the right rule of asking, and the sure method of obtaining. But to flee to the Virgin, passing by Christ, and in prayer to address her instead of God, who sees not to be a profane practice? It is assuredly altogether alien from the Word of God. Nay, there is extant a Canon of the fourth Council of Carthage, forbidding the invocation of saints at the altar. Here, also they (the Sorbonne) give a still clearer manifestation of their absurdity, when they say that this salutation is prescribed to us by the gospel. It is true, Gabriel was sent, as Luke relates, to salute the Virgin in these terms; but are we Gabriel? When was this ever commanded to us? What access have we to the Virgin, for the purpose of holding conference with her? Besides, why use the salutation at the time when they implore the influence of the Spirit, unless to pervert it into a form of prayer?

Monday, May 20, 2013

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 5) Immaculate Conception

I've been intrigued by the alleged "Mariology" of the Reformers for years because of the argumentation of Roman Catholic apologists. I recently came across Wikipedia's John Calvin's views on Mary entry. I didn't get far into the entry before I came across a few facts that appeared odd. I'm going to work through the entry, time allowing. Previous entries are as follows:

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 1)

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 2)

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 3) Perpetual Virginity

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 4) Calvin Did Not Refer to Mary as "Mother of God"?

 Immaculate Conception
The wiki article states, "John Calvin did not accept the doctrine of immaculate conception, considering it conflicted with the aforementioned doctrines and with Romans 3:23 that all have sinned." Roman Catholic writer Peter Stravinskas in a published book states the opposite. Contrary to this, Stravinskas elsewhere states,
Did Calvin have anything specifically positive to say about Mary? Yes, he "commonly speaks of Mary as 'the holy Virgin' (and rarely as simply as 'Mary' preferring 'the Virgin', etc.)." Calvin "rarely depicts Mary expressly as a sinner" although he did object "to her specific exclusion from the reach of original sin by the Council of Trent." At Cana, for instance, Calvin considers the failing (sin) of Mary to have been her desire "to exceed humanity and to make herself an intermediary, which is to forget that grace is totally from God and at His disposal." Bouwsma recounts the charming story that "when Mary rebuked the boy Jesus for His truancy, Calvin apologized for her. 'The weariness of three days was in that complaint,' he explained." It seems that, often enough, Calvin went to particular lengths to assert that "Calvinists are not foes of Mary, but [that] they feel that they have given her true honor, whereas others have taken from God and given to Mary. Throughout Calvin's sermons on the Scriptures, there are occasional references to the dishonor rendered to Mary and to God by her various titles and by Roman theology."
What Stravinskas states above is from a few secondary sources: David Wright, Chosen By God: Mary in Evangelical Perspective (London: Marshall Pickering, 1989), p. 175; Thomas O'Meara, Mary in Protestant and Catholic Theology, (New York: Sheed and Ward, 1965) 133; William J. Bouwsma, John Calvin: A Sixteenth-Century Portrait (New York: Oxford University Press, 1988), p.123. What all these sources Stravinskas has strung together have in common is they point towards Calvin not being a supporter of Mary's immaculate conception.

Of these sources, the author that delves deeply into Calvin's view of this topic is Thomas O'Meara. He states, "There was no time in Calvin's life when he had any respect for the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. He found it unfounded, unscriptural, and unsubstantiated in Christian revelation" (p.131). Unfortunately, O'Meara documents this statement by referring to CR 45, 87-88 which is Calvin's comments on Luke 2:22-23. while Calvin does write on Mary and sin, the statement is not as explicit as O'Meara states:
22. And after that the days were fulfilled. On the fortieth day after the birth, (Leviticus 12:2,4,) the rite of purification was necessary to be performed. But Mary and Joseph come to Jerusalem for another reason, to present Christ to the Lord, because he was the first-born. Let us now speak first of the purification. Luke makes it apply both to Mary and to Christ: for the pronoun aujtw~n, of them, can have no reference whatever to Joseph. But it ought not to appear strange, that Christ, who was to be, made a curse for us on the cross,” (Galatians 3:13,) should, for our benefit, take upon him our uncleanness with respect to legal guilt, though he was “without blemish and without spot,” (1 Peter 1:19.) It ought not, I say, to appear strange, if the fountain of purity, in order to wash away our stains, chose to be reckoned unclean. It is a mistake to imagine that this law of purification was merely political, and that the woman was unclean in presence of her husband, not in presence of God. On the contrary, it placed before the eyes of the Jews both the corruption of their nature, and the remedy of divine grace.

This law is of itself abundantly sufficient to prove original sin, while it contains a striking proof of the grace of God. for there could not be a clearer demonstration of the curse pronounced on mankind than when the Lord declared, that the child comes from its mother unclean and polluted, and that the mother herself is consequently defiled by childbearing. Certainly, if man were not born a sinner, if he were not by nature a child of wrath, (Ephesians 2:3) if some taint of sin did not dwell in him, he would have no need of purification. Hence it follows, that all are corrupted in Adam; for the mouth of the Lord charges all with pollution.

It is in perfect consistency with this, that the Jews are spoken of, in other passages, as “holy branches of a holy root,” (Romans 11:16:) for this benefit did not properly belong to their own persons. They had been set apart, by the privilege of adoption, as an elect people; but the corruption, which they had by inheritance from Adam, was first in the order of time We must, therefore, distinguish between the first nature, and that special kindness through a covenant, by which God delivers his own people from the curse which had been pronounced on all. And the design of legal purification was to inform the Jews, that the pollutions, which they brought with them into the world at their birth, are washed away by the grace of God. Hence too we ought to learn, how dreadful is the contagion of sin, which defiles, in some measure, the lawful order of nature. I do own that childbearing is not unclean, and that what would otherwise be lust changes its character, through the sacredness of the marriage relation. But still the fountain of sin is so deep and abundant, that its constant overflowings stain what would otherwise be pure.
Some Roman Catholics may find Calvin's use of the phrase "holy virgin" an indicator of the immaculate conception. Rather O'Meara explains Calvin's view:
Sanctification signifies choice and separation, which take place in us when we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit in a newness of life. From the moment when we first touch Christ we live in the body of Christ, and Christ lives in us, or better, we live by his spirit.Separation for the work of God made Mary holy; her important role in the kingdom of God made her virtuous. She was, nevertheless, no different in justification and sanctity from any other Christian. She was given no special graces; there was no immaculate conception. Mary is privileged just as every man whom God justifies is privileged. Calvin's exegesis of the angel's words, "full of grace," brings forth a relative fullness. "Stephen was full of grace too (Acts 6:8). Christ alone has a complete fullness. Mary's grace is her approval by God for her faith, and this grace is a pure gift of God who does not consider persons when he bestows grace." Elsewhere Calvin notes Mary's dependence upon Christ for grace; she has nothing of her own. "It is certain that Mary cannot find grace before God without the Head [Christ]. She needs Christ as her redeemer as much as we do." Mary's grace came when she believed, not when she conceived, and her privilege of being the Mother of the Lord did not cause a more profound and complete sanctification. One aspect of Mary's sanctity is her mission among men. The secrets of Christ's birth were given to her so that she might tell the Apostles and tell us of the great mercy of God. The angel's words were addressed to Mary, but it is incorrect to see them as describing her, for they were addressed to all of us through Mary. Her blessedness among women exists because through her all women too will be blessed in learning of the salvation which has come (pp. 131-132).
O'Meara goes on to point out a specific example where Calvin may have attributed sin to Mary: "The particular sin which Calvin imputes to Mary (is it a sin, since Calvin says "she did not knowingly and willingly offend"?) is sufficient indication that the reformer of Geneva would eliminate any notion of Mary's special co-operation in the redemption of man and in the office of mediator. That precisely is her only error: to place herself between man and God. How often in the volumes of his works Calvin repeats the demand that Christ be the sole Mediator" (p. 133-134). O'Meara is referring to Calvin's comment on John 2:4-
4. Woman, what have I to do with thee? Why does Christ repel her so rashly? I reply, though she was not moved by ambition, nor by any carnal affection, still she did wrong in going beyond her proper bounds. Her anxiety about the inconvenience endured by others, and her desire to have it in some way mitigated, proceeded from humanity, and ought to be regarded as a virtue; but still, by putting herself forward, she might obscure the glory of Christ. Though it ought also to be observed, that what Christ spoke was not so much for her sake as for the sake of others. Her modesty and piety were too great, to need so severe a chastisement. Besides, she did not knowingly and willingly offend; but Christ only meets the danger, that no improper use may be made of what his mother had said, as if it were in obedience to her command that he afterwards performed the miracle.
The Greek words literally mean, What to me and to thee? But the Greek phraseology is of the same import with the Latin — Quid tibi mecum? (what hast thou to do with me?) The old translator led many people into a mistake, by supposing Christ to have asserted, that it was no concern of his, or of his mother’s, if the wine fell short. But from the second clause we may easily conclude how far removed this is from Christ’s meaning; for he takes upon himself this concern, and declares that it belongs to him to do so, when he adds, my hour is not yet come. Both ought to be joined together — that Christ understands what it is necessary for him to do, and yet that he will not act in this matter at his mother’s suggestion.
It is a remarkable passage certainly; for why does he absolutely refuse to his mother what he freely granted afterwards, on so many occasions, to all sorts of persons? Again, why is he not satisfied with a bare refusal? and why does he reduce her to the ordinary rank of women, and not even deign to call her mother? This saying of Christ openly and manifestly warns men to beware lest, by too superstitiously elevating the honor of the name of mother in the Virgin Mary, they transfer to her what belongs exclusively to God. Christ, therefore, addresses his mother in this manner, in order to lay down a perpetual and general instruction to all ages, that his divine glory must not be obscured by excessive honor paid to his mother. How necessary this warning became, in consequence of the gross and disgraceful superstitions which followed afterwards, is too well known. For Mary has been constituted the Queen of Heaven, the Hope, the Life, and the Salvation of the world; and, in short, their fury and madness proceeded so far that they stripped Christ of his spoils, and left him almost naked. And when we condemn those horrid blasphemies against the Son of God, the Papists call us malignant and envious; and — what is worse — they maliciously slander us as deadly foes to the honor of the holy Virgin. As if she had not all the honor that is due to her, unless she were made a Goddess; or as if it were treating her with respect, to adorn her with blasphemous titles, and to substitute her in the room of Christ. The Papists, therefore, offer a grievous insult to Mary when, in order to disfigure her by false praises, they take from God what belongs to Him.
One final example that perhaps clearly affirms Calvin did not support Mary's immaculate conception comes from a statement he made about the sixth session of the Council of Trent:
CANON 23.
We condemn those who affirm that a man once justified cannot sin, and likewise those who deny that the truly justified ever fall: those in like manner who assert that a man regenerated by the Spirit of God is able to abstain even from the least sins. These are the delirious dreams of fanatics, who either with devilish arrogance deceive, or with hypocrisy fascinate the minds of men, or plot to lead them to the precipice of despair. As to the special privilege of the Virgin Mary, when they produce the celestial diploma we shall believe what they say: for to what do they here give the name of the Church, but just to the Council of Clermont? Augustine was certainly a member of the Church, and though he in one passage chooses, in order to avoid obloquy, rather to be silent respecting the blessed Virgin, he uniformly, without making her an exception, describes the Whole race of Adam as involved in sin. Nay, he even almost in distinct terms classes her among sinners, when writing to Marcellinus, he says, They err greatly who hold that any of the saints except Christ require not to use this prayer, “Forgive us our debts.” In so doing, they by no means please the saints whom they laud. Chrysostom and Ambrose, who suspect her of having been tempted by ambition, were members of the Church. All these things I mention for no other end but to let my readers understand that there is no figment so nugatory as not to be classed by these blockheads among the Articles of Faith.

Saturday, May 18, 2013

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 4) Calvin Did Not Refer to Mary as "Mother of God"?

I've been intrigued by the alleged "Mariology" of the Reformers for years because of the argumentation of Roman Catholic apologists. I recently came across Wikipedia's John Calvin's views on Mary entry. I didn't get far into the entry before I came across a few facts that appeared odd. I'm going to work through the entry, time allowing. Previous entries are as follows:

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 1)

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 2)

Wikipedia's "John Calvin's views on Mary" (Part 3) Perpetual Virginity

Mother of God
The article contains a section on Calvin and the phrase Mother of God: "It has been argued that Mary was, in Calvin's view, properly called the Mother of God." This time, the Wiki article does an adequate job with some of the facts, but never arrives at an actual conclusion as to Calvin properly calling Mary the Mother of God. Calvin's use (or lack thereof) is an interesting topic, particularly as it relates to Roman Catholic apologetics.

Calvin's comments on Luke 1:43 are most frequently cited by Roman apologists.  There Calvin mentions Elizabeth calls Mary "the mother of her Lord." To demonstrate how popular this comment from Calvin is within Romanism, note but a few examples. Citing this reference, John Pasquini states in his books Catholic Answers to Protestant Questions and True Christianity the Catholic Way, "Even John Calvin recognized the reality of Mary as the Mother of God!" EWTN hosts a webpage that states, "The French reformer John Calvin (1509-1564) also held that Mary was the Mother of God." The oft-quoted web article, The Protestant Reformers On Mary uses it. Roman apologist Scott Windsor has an article with the same Calvin quote. One Roman apologist cites Calvin's comment on Luke 1:43 as proof that,
"...anti-Marianism runs strong in Protestant circles, in reaction to what they perceive as an 'excessive Mariology' in the Catholic Church. So they become downright irrational in their opposition to 'Mother of God.' This opposition, however, is not intrinsic to Protestantism, since early Protestant leaders Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and Bullinger all used the term 'Mother of God' (or at least described the same concept in slightly different terms)."
These Roman Catholic documents make bold assertions in regard to Calvin's comments on Luke 1:43. Keep in mind, in the context of Calvin's comments, the phrase "Mother of God" is not used. In fact, when Calvin states, "She calls Mary the mother of her Lord" the comment is simply the biblical phrase Calvin is going to comment on. That is, in Calvin's commentaries he picks a particular biblical phrase and then comments. Here's how Calvin's commentary on Luke 1:43 looks in context, as produced in my electronic version (Ages Software):

43And whence is this to me? The happy medium observed by Elisabeth is worthy of notice. She thinks very highly of the favors bestowed by God on Mary, and gives them just commendation, but yet does not praise them more highly than was proper, which would have been a dishonor to God. For such is the native depravity of the world, that there are few persons who are not chargeable with one of these two faults. Some, delighted beyond measure with themselves, and desirous to shine alone, enviously despise the gifts of God in their brethren; while others praise them in so superstitious a manner as to convert them into idols. The consequence has been, that the first rank is assigned to Mary, and Christ is lowered as it were to the footstool. Elisabeth, again, while she praises her, is so far from hiding the Divine glory, that she ascribes everything to God. And yet, though she acknowledges the superiority of Mary to herself and to others, she does not envy her the higher distinction, but modestly declares that she had obtained more than she deserved.
She calls Mary the mother of her Lord. This denotes a unity of person in the two natures of Christ; as if she had said, that he who was begotten a mortal man in the womb of Mary is, at the same time, the eternal God. For we must bear in mind, that she does not speak like an ordinary woman at her own suggestion, but merely utters what was dictated by the Holy Spirit. This name Lord strictly belongs to the Son of God “manifested in the flesh,” (1 Timothy 3:16,) who has received from the Father all power, and has been appointed the highest ruler of heaven and earth, that by his agency God may govern all things. Still, he is in a peculiar manner the Lord of believers, who yield willingly and cheerfully to his authority; for it is only of “his body” that he is “the head,” (Ephesians 1:22, 23.) And so Paul says, “though there be lords many, yet to us,” that is, to the servants of faith, “there is one Lord,” (1 Corinthians 8:5, 6.) By mentioning the sudden movement of the babe which she carried in her womb, (ver. 44,) as heightening that divine favor of which she is speaking, she unquestionably intended to affirm that she felt something supernatural and divine.
In some English translations of Calvin's commentaries, the particular biblical Phrase Calvin is going to comment on is highlighted is some sense, usually by being italicized. One need only read Calvin's explanation of the text that he isn't concerned with securing the popular phrase "Mother of God."

The key argument though to Calvin's opinion on the title "Mother of God" is not found in this simple passing commentary of Luke 1:43. Rather, it's found in a letter Calvin wrote September 27, 1552 to the French Church in London. They had written to him and asked, "Is it lawful to call Mary the Mother of God?" Calvin responds,
Concerning the other debatable points, I doubt not but there may have been somewhat of ignorance in their reproving the way of speaking of the Virgin Mary as the mother of God, and together with ignorance, it is possible that there may have been rashness and too much forwardness, for, as the old proverb says, The most ignorant are ever the boldest. However, to deal with you with brotherly frankness, I cannot conceal that that title being commonly attributed to the Virgin in sermons is disapproved, and, for my own part I cannot think such language either right, or becoming, or suitable. Neither will any sober-minded people do so, for which reason I cannot persuade myself that there is any such usage in your church, for it is just as if you were to speak of the blood, of the head, and of the death of God. You know that the Scriptures accustom us to a different style; but there is something still worse about this particular instance, for to call the Virgin Mary the mother of God, can only serve to confirm the ignorant in their superstitions. And he that would take a pleasure in that, shews clearly that he knows not what it is to edify the Church.
This comment clearly expresses what Calvin thought of the title "Mother of God." The Wiki article goes on to mention,"Calvin never explicitly refers to Mary as the 'Mother of God'." I found this assertion rather unbelievable, but as I've sifted through my collection of Calvin's writings, I've yet to find Calvin using the phrase. Roman Catholic writer Thomas O'Meara mentions this lack of usage is sometimes used to prove Calvin was "a Nestorian in disguise." He states, "One reason for this which is commonly advanced is that Calvin nowhere calls Mary Theotokos, or the Mother of God."  He mentions Calvin does write at one point, "Mother of the Son of God." Ultimately, O'Meara arrives at the same letter from 1552 and states, "The reason for his hesitancy [to use "Mother of God"] seems to be based upon a fear of falling into what he saw as the excesses of the past."

Addendum
Here's Calvin's comment on Luke 1:43 from Joannis Calvini opera quae supersunt omnia vol. 45.


In this Latin text, the phrase for "She calls Mary the mother of her Lord" is "Quod Mariam appellat Domini sui matrem." In fairness to Rome's defenders, there is no paragraph in the Latin like there is in the English, nor is this phrase singled out or italicized like it is in the English.


Friday, May 17, 2013

Witnessing to some Muslims online (Part 1)

I have been witnessing and interacting with some Muslims on line recently, at Paul Bilal Williams blog.
Interesting that Paul Williams then grabbed a few "choice quotes" and says that they "go to the heart of the matter".  Indeed, the heart of the matter is the human heart, which is full of sin(Genesis 6:5), in bondage to sin(John 8:34), and causes us to be unclean and defiled, and is the root of sin and causes us to be guilty enough to be sent to hell.  Jesus said this in Matthew 5:21-26 (the roots of murder are anger and hatred); Matthew 5:27-30 (the roots of adultery are sexual lust) and Mark 7:20-23 (the roots of all sins are the evil thoughts within the heart.)

Here is some of it reproduced below, with 3 (or 4) Muslims, Muhammad Al-Hakeem, Abbas, and Erik, and also some one who goes by "Semsav12"   - with some editorial changes for space reasons.  There are some things I took out and some things I added, but the ideas were from other sections of our exchange, in order to make it understandable.  Feel free to visit the link above and see other details and more interaction in the com-boxes.  I am not reproducing everything here.



.    Muhammad Al- Hakeem wrote:

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.    Not to mention that God’s true love, justice and mercy is about simply forgiving those who sincerely repented;



Ken writes: 
You assume that humans can sincerely repent. (without the grace of God in regeneration) Romans 3:9-23 – there is no one who is sincere and no one seeks for God and no one has perfect repentance. Not committing physical adultery is not enough; for you have selfish lusts in your heart. (Matthew 5:27-30) And that lust sends you to hell. Isa Al Masih said this. Not committing actual murder is not enough, for you have hatred and anger in your heart, and that anger and hatred sends you to hell. (Matthew 5:21-26) That anger and hatred sends you to hell. The roots of sin are in the thoughts, and motives in the heart. (Mark 7:20-23) External washings cannot cleanse your heart of your jealousy, pride, selfishness, lust, anger, self-pity, foolishness, rancor, bitterness. God does not wink at sin. You denigrate the holiness of God. Forgiveness was based on the sacrifice/atonement in the Torah and Old Testament. Why do you think God set up the sacrificial system in the book of Exodus and Leviticus? Why did God substitute an innocent ram in the place of Abraham’s son? (Genesis 22) Yahya [the Arabic Qur'anic form for John the Baptist]  said and about Jesus (Isa Al Masih), “Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.” (John 1:29)



Muhammad Al-Hakeem:  not by making the [cross/atonement/Christ's sacrifice] only way to wipe out sin –


The Scriptures are clear – Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin. Hebrews 9:22  [see also 1 John 2:2; Revelation 5:9] The whole book of Hebrews, especially chapters 8, 9, and 10 explain how Christ’s death was the final sacrifice and final atonement for sin, and fulfillment of the sacrificial system in the Torah and Old Testament.


and not by punishing an innocent man (only the human nature died, as you claim) for the sins of billions of other sinners.
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This sentence is understandable and an objection to the Christian message from an Islamic viewpoint, ok. Since we believe that the Son voluntarily came and became flesh and voluntarily gave His life out of love for mankind, it is wrong for you to keep communicating what we believe without the aspect of voluntary love for sinners. Jesus said, “no one takes My life from Me, I lay it down voluntarily on my own authority and initiative. I have authority to lay it down and take it up again. (John 10:18)

 
I used to be quite curious about and respecting of the famous Christian “God is Love” statement, until I knew what it really is about. I now don’t know how much “love” can really be attributed to the Christian God. Please stop deceiving people.



Do you even know where the phrase “God is love” is located? I would encourage you to actually read and study it and think about it. It actually explains all the details. 

1 John 4:7-21 is the full paragraph that answers many of the questions and objections you have. 

Then read the entire book of 1 John (5 short chapters) slowly with aql (عقل = mind, reason, thinking) and ta'amoq (تعمق = deep thought)  and tafakkor. ( تفکر  = meditation ) 


7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only unique Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation [satisfaction of justice/ turning away of wrath] for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.


Abbas wrote:
Your people saw the crucifixing from afar. That is what the Quran is saying that is a conjecture. Why didn’t they go close to witness it first hand?


         John(an apostle/disciple and eye-witness), Mary, Jesus’ Mother, and other women were close and witnessed the crucifixion. You left out that part that I gave you – John chapter 19. Since Mark wrote for Peter, we can conclude that Peter was further back, but close enough to witness it; same with Matthew, who was an eyewitness. Luke interviewed Mary and the rest of the apostles/disciples/ eyewitnesses. There are so many details of the trials, arrest, crucifixion, resurrection in all four gospels that you cannot just dismiss them. At first, when they arrested Jesus, the disciples fled out of fear that they would be arrested also. But the text says that Peter came back and followed at a distance. I already gave you all the references. There are so many details of the crucifixion in all four gospels, and in other historical writings, that it is the Qur’an that has been proven to be false in 4:157. 

.     

Erik wrote that the crucifixion and the Father punishing the Son was "child abuse" - "stop cosmic child abuse"


It is not child abuse if the Son voluntarily out of love for human sinners gave His life because He wanted to (John 10:18; Mark 10:45); and the victory of the resurrection over death and sin and Satan shows that God won the victory by humility and love and power – the power of allowing someone to defeat you – by not fighting back or taking vengeance/revenge. When you leave out the love and voluntarily aspect and when you leave out the victory and power of the resurrection, you distort the Christian message. 


So, Paul, your selective choosing of a few statements was not a good Da’awah.


Lord willing, more to come.