Well, if the Church truly contained gnosis, then I would highly doubt you would see Reformed Pastors jumping ship.
Additionally, salvation is through the grace of God...and there is nothing I contribute to it.
No, what these pastors and other reformed are drawn to is the Eucharist. The Body of Christ fully present. Without it, the Catholic Church would be void of anything. She would cease being "The Church" and would just be another denomination.
I think the reason that people convert from Protestantism to Catholicism is the exact same reason people convert from Catholicism to Protestantism.
My own 2 cents is that there are probably a number of reasons why people do what they do.
On the other hand, one thing I am fairly certain about, is that people who want to tell their conversion (or deconversion) stories typically want to talk about themselves.
To deepen their relationship with Christ.
I am of the opinion that Reformed Protestants and Roman Catholics have central beliefs that differ from one another, and both can't be right. One group of converts is not deepening their relationship with Christ.
My own 2 cents is that there are probably a number of reasons why people do what they do
The only reason to become Catholic is for the Eucharist. The Eucharist is central to the faith of Catholicism. It is the center of the Church. Everything else is secondary. Without the Eucharist, I would cease to be Catholic.
I am of the opinion that Reformed Protestants and Roman Catholics have central beliefs that differ from one another, and both can't be right. One group of converts is not deepening their relationship with Christ.
I don’t think the central beliefs are that different. There is a lot of common ground between a Protestant and Catholic—Trinity, Scriptures (except for the Deuterocanon), Jesus as Messiah, Salvation through grace, etc. Protestants and Catholics can be right about certain things. The amount we have in common is far greater than our differences.
A lapsed Catholic can be a better Christian—and have a deeper relationship with Christ--as a Reformed Protestant and a Reformed Protestant cannot find Christ present in the Eucharist anywhere but the Church (Catholic or Orthodox). These former Protestants aren’t submitting themselves to the Pope. They are submitting themselves to Christ in the Eucharist. This submission to Christ in the Eucharist results in a submission to the Pope but more as an afterthought.
As to why converts tell their story, I don’t know. Maybe there is some vanity involved with some of the stories. I know some stories are better than others.
Lockheed, It is certainly possible for one to think that they are just a good person, and have never robbed a bank, raped someone, or murdered someone, and volunteer once in a while at a soup kitchen, and if you ask them, they believe fully they are not as "bad" as those truly 'evil' persons, and this is sufficient for heaven. But the reality is exactly what Reformed & Catholic Christians teach alike; you cannot earn salvation in the STRICT sense (Example: God, I will do X, and in return, you will give me heaven). Now when I was a young adolescent, my father owned a party store (Chips,Pop,Candy,etc), and I worked for him, and he always paid me, although he owed me nothing. He always provided for my needs, although I never deserved it, and again, he owed me NOTHING. It was his good pleasure to have me participate in the family business. The same thing is true of the Christian family, and the fact is we are invited to participate in the work of the Kingdom of God, since we are all part of the family of God. Regretfully, you all insist that this point cannot be conceded, because if it were to be conceded, it would somehow necessarily imply that this diminishes the grace and glory of God, (which Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental, and all churches that are apostolic in origin, teach it does not when in grace). When I mopped the floors in my dad's store, and in return I received a gift of an expensive automobile in return, do you think I was foolish enough to boast that I in fact was responsible for so great a gift? The same is true of the the theology of the Apostolic Churches. The fact that my father was so generous to bestow upon me something so great does nothing to diminish his honor, in fact only the opposite, enhances it. There is no conflict between me participating in the family business (which our heavenly Father intends us to) and his grace which is responsible for the gift of my salvation. God bless you all
I've been trying to comment there but my comments haven't been getting through...
ReplyDeleteI think the reason that people convert from Protestantism to Catholicism is the exact same reason people convert from Catholicism to Protestantism.
To deepen their relationship with Christ.
Unfortunately, many Catholics today aren't properly catechized and have found a deeper relationship with Christ in Protestant denominations.
Likewise, some Protestants are searching for a deeper relationship with Christ as well which ends up drawing them into Catholicism.
There is a breadth and depth to spirituality in Catholicism that is different than Protestantism.
Yes, a 'breadth and depth' of gnosis that makes the individual feel like they're contributing to their salvation. Smells, bells and hells.
ReplyDeleteWell, if the Church truly contained gnosis, then I would highly doubt you would see Reformed Pastors jumping ship.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, salvation is through the grace of God...and there is nothing I contribute to it.
No, what these pastors and other reformed are drawn to is the Eucharist. The Body of Christ fully present. Without it, the Catholic Church would be void of anything. She would cease being "The Church" and would just be another denomination.
I think the reason that people convert from Protestantism to Catholicism is the exact same reason people convert from Catholicism to Protestantism.
ReplyDeleteMy own 2 cents is that there are probably a number of reasons why people do what they do.
On the other hand, one thing I am fairly certain about, is that people who want to tell their conversion (or deconversion) stories typically want to talk about themselves.
To deepen their relationship with Christ.
I am of the opinion that Reformed Protestants and Roman Catholics have central beliefs that differ from one another, and both can't be right. One group of converts is not deepening their relationship with Christ.
My own 2 cents is that there are probably a number of reasons why people do what they do
ReplyDeleteThe only reason to become Catholic is for the Eucharist. The Eucharist is central to the faith of Catholicism. It is the center of the Church. Everything else is secondary. Without the Eucharist, I would cease to be Catholic.
I am of the opinion that Reformed Protestants and Roman Catholics have central beliefs that differ from one another, and both can't be right. One group of converts is not deepening their relationship with Christ.
I don’t think the central beliefs are that different. There is a lot of common ground between a Protestant and Catholic—Trinity, Scriptures (except for the Deuterocanon), Jesus as Messiah, Salvation through grace, etc. Protestants and Catholics can be right about certain things. The amount we have in common is far greater than our differences.
A lapsed Catholic can be a better Christian—and have a deeper relationship with Christ--as a Reformed Protestant and a Reformed Protestant cannot find Christ present in the Eucharist anywhere but the Church (Catholic or Orthodox). These former Protestants aren’t submitting themselves to the Pope. They are submitting themselves to Christ in the Eucharist. This submission to Christ in the Eucharist results in a submission to the Pope but more as an afterthought.
As to why converts tell their story, I don’t know. Maybe there is some vanity involved with some of the stories. I know some stories are better than others.
Lockheed,
ReplyDeleteIt is certainly possible for one to think that they are just a good person, and have never robbed a bank, raped someone, or murdered someone, and volunteer once in a while at a soup kitchen, and if you ask them, they believe fully they are not as "bad" as those truly 'evil' persons, and this is sufficient for heaven. But the reality is exactly what Reformed & Catholic Christians teach alike; you cannot earn salvation in the STRICT sense (Example: God, I will do X, and in return, you will give me heaven). Now when I was a young adolescent, my father owned a party store (Chips,Pop,Candy,etc), and I worked for him, and he always paid me, although he owed me nothing. He always provided for my needs, although I never deserved it, and again, he owed me NOTHING. It was his good pleasure to have me participate in the family business. The same thing is true of the Christian family, and the fact is we are invited to participate in the work of the Kingdom of God, since we are all part of the family of God. Regretfully, you all insist that this point cannot be conceded, because if it were to be conceded, it would somehow necessarily imply that this diminishes the grace and glory of God, (which Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental, and all churches that are apostolic in origin, teach it does not when in grace). When I mopped the floors in my dad's store, and in return I received a gift of an expensive automobile in return, do you think I was foolish enough to boast that I in fact was responsible for so great a gift? The same is true of the the theology of the Apostolic Churches. The fact that my father was so generous to bestow upon me something so great does nothing to diminish his honor, in fact only the opposite, enhances it. There is no conflict between me participating in the family business (which our heavenly Father intends us to) and his grace which is responsible for the gift of my salvation.
God bless you all