"This is what Luther said about the 10 Commandments"

Here's one of those pesky "Luther said what?" threads from Catholic Answers,

#46       Jan 21, '12, 12:33 am

thistle  Forum Master Join Date: August 23, 2005 Location: I'm British but live in the Philippines Posts: 14,026 Religion: Catholic

Re: Martin Luther's New Testament Canon? Quote: Originally Posted by Zenkai  When did he say that? If he did say that, perhaps he got that idea because Christians aren't under the Law of Moses. We are under the moral laws, not the ritual laws. This is what Luther said about the 10 Commandments: "Their only purpose is to show man his impotence to do good and to teach him to despair of himself" (Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), Volume III, p. 364.) “Thou shalt not covet,’ is a commandment which proves us all to be sinners; since it is not in man’s power not to covet, and the same is the drift of all the commandments, for they are all equally impossible to us.” - "Moses is an executioner, a cruel lictor, a torturer a torturer who tears our flesh out with pincers and makes us suffer martyrdom . . . Whoever, in the name of Christ, terrifies and troubles consciences, is not the messenger of Christ, but of the devil . . . Let us therefore send Moses packing and for ever." (D. Martini Lutheri Exegetica Opera Latina, published by Elsperger (Erlangen, Heyder, 1829-84), Vol. 18 pg. 146) “We must remove the Decalogue out of sight and heart” (De Wette 4, 188). “It does not matter what people do; it only matters what they believe.” (Erlangen Vol. 29, Pg. 126) “If we allow them - the Commandments - any influence in our conscience, they become the cloak of all evil, heresies and blasphemies” (Comm. ad Galat, p.310).

#47       Jan 21, '12, 12:37 am

Zenkai  New Member Join Date: November 25, 2011 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 145 Religion: Christian(hoping to start RCIA eventually)

Re: Martin Luther's New Testament Canon? Quote: Originally Posted by thistle  We are under the moral laws, not the ritual laws. Ok, but when did Luther say to get rid of the 10 Commandments? Perhaps he meant that they weren't necessary for Salvation.

#48       Jan 21, '12, 12:38 am

thistle  Forum Master Join Date: August 23, 2005 Location: I'm British but live in the Philippines Posts: 14,026 Religion: Catholic

Re: Martin Luther's New Testament Canon? Quote: Originally Posted by Zenkai  Ok, but when did Luther say to get rid of the 10 Commandments? Perhaps he meant that they weren't necessary for Salvation. See post #46.

#49       Jan 21, '12, 12:45 am

Zenkai  New Member Join Date: November 25, 2011 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 145 Religion: Christian(hoping to start RCIA eventually)

Re: Martin Luther's New Testament Canon? Quote: Originally Posted by thistle  See post #46. Those seem to be taken out of context. Here, I googled one and this is what one of those quotes says in context: http://beggarsallreformation.blogspo...t-us-send.html

#50       Jan 21, '12, 12:51 am

thistle  Forum Master Join Date: August 23, 2005 Location: I'm British but live in the Philippines Posts: 14,026 Religion: Catholic

Re: Martin Luther's New Testament Canon? Quote: Originally Posted by Zenkai  Those seem to be taken out of context. Here, I googled one and this is what one of those quotes says in context: http://beggarsallreformation.blogspo...t-us-send.html Its not out of context. You are debating about Luther but having to google. I thought you had read his writings. If you have not then how could you say I was giving false information. I think we won't get far if you have to google every time I make a comment about Luther. Let me help you google. Here is everything Luther wrote or said: http://www.godrules.net/library/luther/luther.htm

#51       Jan 21, '12, 12:56 am

Zenkai  New Member Join Date: November 25, 2011 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 145 Religion: Christian(hoping to start RCIA eventually)

Re: Martin Luther's New Testament Canon? Quote: Originally Posted by thistle  Its not out of context. You are debating about Luther but having to google. I thought you had read his writings. If you have not then how could you say I was giving false information. I think we won't get far if you have to google every time I make a comment about Luther. Let me help you google. Here is everything Luther wrote or said: http://www.godrules.net/library/luther/luther.htm I didn't memorize every word the man said! Did you even read the link? It shows that quote in-context.

#52       Jan 21, '12, 1:06 am

thistle  Forum Master Join Date: August 23, 2005 Location: I'm British but live in the Philippines Posts: 14,026 Religion: Catholic

Re: Martin Luther's New Testament Canon? Quote: Originally Posted by Zenkai  I didn't memorize every word the man said! Did you even read the link? It shows that quote in-context. Of course I read it. It doesn't change anything. By the way we risk getting the thread closed as it is about Luther's New Testament which would not be fair to the OP. If you want to start a new one on the Old Testament feel free.

#53       Jan 21, '12, 1:09 am

Zenkai  New Member Join Date: November 25, 2011 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 145 Religion: Christian(hoping to start RCIA eventually)

Re: Martin Luther's New Testament Canon? Quote: Originally Posted by thistle  Of course I read it. It doesn't change anything. By the way we risk getting the thread closed as it is about Luther's New Testament which would not be fair to the OP. If you want to start a new one on the Old Testament feel free. Alright, but it does change everything. That quote, when read in-context, is far different from what it says out of context.

Jan 21, '12, 7:35 am

TertiumQuid  Regular Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 561 Religion: Reformed

Re: Martin Luther's New Testament Canon? Quote: Originally Posted by thistle  Its not out of context. You are debating about Luther but having to google. I thought you had read his writings. If you have not then how could you say I was giving false information. I think we won't get far if you have to google every time I make a comment about Luther. Let me help you google. Here is everything Luther wrote or said: http://www.godrules.net/library/luther/luther.htm Oh my. You think the quotes you posted in #46 are not out of context? Why don't you go over to your URL "http://www.godrules.net/library/luther/luther.htm" and find the context of those quotes? Let me help you out: your URL does not contain "everything Luther wrote or said." In fact, it only contains a very small sampling. I would be surprised if you could actually locate any of the quotes you used in #46 at that link. The ironic part is it's highly improbable that you actually took those quotes from the sources you list: Quote: Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), Volume III, p. 364.) D. Martini Lutheri Exegetica Opera Latina, published by Elsperger (Erlangen, Heyder, 1829-84), Vol. 18 pg. 146 De Wette 4, 188 Erlangen Vol. 29, Pg. 126 Comm. ad Galat, p.310 If you actually got your quotes from these sources, this would mean you know French, Latin and German, and then translated your quotes into English from books that have been out of print for years. I don't believe that for a second. No, you used Google and found some version of the slanderous webpage Luther, Exposing the Myth. So before you chastise someone for using Google, I suggest you start with yourself. Zenkai probably didn't realize that I was the author of the link posted in #49, but I suspect you did. I'll gladly defend any of the research that went into the content of these links: 1. "Their only purpose is to show man his impotence to do good and to teach him to despair of himself" 2. “Thou shalt not covet,’ is a commandment which proves us all to be sinners; since it is not in man’s power not to covet, and the same is the drift of all the commandments, for they are all equally impossible to us.” 3. "Moses is an executioner, a cruel lictor, a torturer a torturer who tears our flesh out with pincers and makes us suffer martyrdom . . . Whoever, in the name of Christ, terrifies and troubles consciences, is not the messenger of Christ, but of the devil . . . Let us therefore send Moses packing and for ever."  4. "We must remove the Decalogue out of sight and heart” (deWette 4, 188). 5. “It does not matter what people do; it only matters what they believe.” 6. “If we allow them - the Commandments - any influence in our conscience, they become the cloak of all evil, heresies and blasphemies” (Comm. ad Galat, p.310).  My links are specifically for people like "Thistle". It's one thing to disagree with Luther, it's quite another to deliberately misrepresent what he said. James Swan Last edited by TertiumQuid; Jan 21, '12 at 7:50 am.

...and that was the end of that.