"In a devotion passed on by St. Bridget of Sweden, the Blessed Virgin Mary promised to grant seven graces to those who console her by daily meditation on the seven sorrows of her life. Pray one Hail Mary after meditating on each of the Seven Sorrows...
...I have obtained this Grace from my Divine Son, that those who propagate this devotion to my tears and dolors, will be taken from this earthly life to eternal happiness since all their sins will be forgiven and my Son and I will be their eternal consolation and joy." source
This guy seems pretty stoked about it.
Once again this is another indication of how all over the place Romanism is. They've got all sorts of strange things like this, perpetuated by all sorts of people. They've got the same sort of bizarre extremists that plague Protestantism . Conservative Romanists claim that they have been called to communion. Well, are they in communion with such folks who create webpage's like the one linked to?
ReplyDeleteAs one Protestant once asked: has any RC ever been officially corrected - let alone excommunicated - by his or her ecclesiastical superiors for paying "too high" amount of respect for Mary?
ReplyDeleteI wonder what makes Bridgette think Mary promised any of this? Is this one of those things that a ghost told them?
ReplyDeleteJ.L., this is what idolatry does to holy people like Mary: it turns them into CARICATURES. An idolatrous worshipper of created beings turns the objects of his veneration into twisted cartoon-versions of reality. In other words, he (or she) is actually worshipping the figments of his own fallen imagination.
ReplyDeleteI see certain similarity between idolatry and pornography (in the Bible, idolatry is indeed explicitly compared to sexual promiscuity ); although the luridly depicted or decorated object of improper attention plays a major part in the transaction, the "real action" occurs in the worshipper/observer's own twisted imagination.
ReplyDeleteThus we could argue that idolatry is spiritual pornography.
They've got all sorts of strange things like this, perpetuated by all sorts of people.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but the devotion itself isn't that out there. I found it in a current RC prayer book and found some discussion on the CA forums about implementing it.
I get the feeling that Catholic epologists down play this stuff when in reality it is not only prevalent but acceptable.
get the feeling that Catholic epologists down play this stuff when in reality it is not only prevalent but acceptable
ReplyDeleteRomanists (at least the majority of folks I come across on the Internet) typically argue on either intellectual or biblical grounds for their Romanism. All the bizarre stuff gets swept under the rug or ignored. For instance, it's a rare occurrence to see a pro-Roman apologist speak out against excessive Mary or saint worship.
One of the last debates between Dr White and Robert Sungenis though was quite fascinating in that, if I recall correctly, Sungenis appealed to the revelation of Fatima as part of his argumentation.
Thus we could argue that idolatry is spiritual pornography
ReplyDeleteIt is that, and worse.
I was just thinking, what a horrible witness this all is.
ReplyDeleteImagine some RC priest, hiking through the amazon seaching for unfound people groups. Imagine him comig out into a native village lost from time, and lo! The people still worship their idols. He sees the statues in the center of the village, sparkling gold and jeweled, and the offergs left around it as the natives bow to it in prayer.
"No! Stop all this!" the priest shouts. "Stop all this bowing to unhearing statues, stop these offerings to images made by the hands of men..." then reaching in his pocket, "here, use this statue instead."
And especially with the ghosts. Jesus and the Apostles went out of their way to silence the people who claimed spirits and ghosts told them the future. There was a better way and a more sure way, and to prove it they cast out the spirits and proclaimed Christ.
But I guess that was because they never encountered someone prophesying by the spirit of Jesus' mom? "Here, use this ghost instead, and make sure to run anything she says by us first for approval."
This kinda stuff just weirds me out. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it is just really creepy.
All the bizarre stuff gets swept under the rug or ignored. For instance, it's a rare occurrence to see a pro-Roman apologist speak out against excessive Mary or saint worship.
ReplyDeleteSee, I wouldn't call something like this prayer "excessive". I would call this fairly standard stuff for RCism. That is what is troubling.
The real fringe kooks I can give somewhat of a pass on since everyone has some of those.
"...it's a rare occurrence to see a pro-Roman apologist speak out against excessive Mary or saint worship."
ReplyDeleteQuite true - almost in every case Catholic Apologists deny that anyone "worships Mary".
I was raised Catholic and I never heard anyone offer any guidance on the appropriate amount or degree of reverence to offer Mary. How do the gradations of dulia, hyper-dulia, and latria work in actual practice?
Regardless of any example of a devotion or prayer to Mary that a Protestant can cite, we're always told that "it doesn't constitute Marian worship".
There have been popes in history who committed adultery, fornication, incest, led armies, had rivals killed, rigged elections, called for Crusades, and held (if not taught) heretical beliefs but the world has apparently never known a Catholic that worshiped Mary.
I would call this fairly standard stuff for RCism. That is what is troubling.
ReplyDeleteYou're probably right.
a few months back we had a young RC girl & her boyfriend over for dinner. We had never met them before they came over. This young lady was direct from Italy. Her entire faith consisted of looking into the sun, and not having any trouble doing so- it was some sort of Mary visitation that happened in Rome a few years ago.
On the other hand, the Internet e-pologists that I've come across are all about the Bible and Church history. I've always felt they are the exception.
There have been popes in history who committed adultery, fornication, incest, led armies, had rivals killed, rigged elections, called for Crusades, and held (if not taught) heretical beliefs but the world has apparently never known a Catholic that worshiped Mary.
ReplyDeleteWell stated.
On the other hand, the Internet e-pologists that I've come across are all about the Bible and Church history.
ReplyDeleteAre these former Protestants? The Tiber swimmers always seem to struggle with the Mariolotry more.
Seems like in the past there is one or two brave epologists that will defend the Mary stuff , but yeah, it's not brought up much. I have to wonder whether they have concerns or whether they just keep that part private.
I've always felt they are the exception.
Yes, I think they are a very small minority based on my experience.
"Are these former Protestants? The Tiber swimmers always seem to struggle with the Mariolotry more."
ReplyDeleteJohn Henry Newman himself, that archetypal Tiber-swimmer, was famously uncomfortable with strong Mariolatry - and conservative Trad-Cats both back then and today condemned him for such scruples:
Newman's strong reservations on devotion to Our Lady
"After the proclamation of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception by Pope Pius IX on December 8, 1854 (see Ineffabilis Deus), there was an enormous increase of devotion to Our Lady throughout Christendom. In that atmosphere, nothing was more normal than that St. Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort, the great apostle of her devotion, should become better known. In England, the translator of St. Louis de Montfort's main work - The Treatise on True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary - was Fr. Frederick Faber. He also became a strong promoter of this devotion through his sermons and writings.
Many Anglicans rose up against that new wave of Marian devotion as being foreign to the English spirit. Among them was Edward B. Pusey who wrote a book in 1865 - Eirenicon - ridiculing that devotion.
Newman, who was good friends of Pusey, was also outraged by many aspects of this new enthusiasm for Our Lady. With the publication of Eirenikon, he found an opportunity to enter the picture to express his opposition for this increase of devotion.
In his public response to Pusey, Newman declared himself in agreement with him and condemned the "excesses" of Fr. Faber as reported by Pusey. Among those "excesses" that Newman attacked, however, are many of the principles set out by St. Louis de Montfort in his True Devotion."
Protestants and Catholics read Scripture differently.
ReplyDeleteHere's what we see. Scripture says that God's will should be done on earth as it is in heaven.
And God wills that the Angels praise Mary:
Luke 1:
26And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Let's break this down:
ANGEL GABRIEL
1. an angel is a messenger of God. That is what the word, angel, means.
2. this angel, Gabriel, is one of the four angels that stands before the throne of God.
WAS SENT FROM GOD
1. God sent this angel to Mary.
2. Since this angel is a messenger of God's, God sent Him to deliver a message.
3. Therefore, the angel was not speaking on his own, but was communicating God's message to Mary.
4. If we skip down to verse 28, we see that this was a message of praise (i.e. blessed art thou).
5. Therefore God praised Mary through His Angel.
That is great praise indeed. Do you know of any man whose praise is worth more than God's? In other words, what do you value more highly, the praise of man or the praise of God?
But, there's more. God sent the Angel to do His Will. What is His Will. Obviously, God sent the Angel to deliver a message of praise. Therefore it is God's will that the Angels praise Mary.
And there's yet more. Because the Holy Spirit inspired a holy woman to exclaim, ""Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! "
still in Luke chapter 1: 41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
Should we break this down?
1. The Holy Spirit is God the Third Person of the Holy Trinity.
2. Therefore, God inspired Elisabeth to praise Mary.
3. This praise is inscribed in the Word of God for all generations.
4. Since Elisabeth is a member of the human race, then it is safe to conclude that God wills that men praise Mary.
5. And we find, again, that God praised Mary through His Saint. Saint Elisabeth praised Mary when she was inspired by the Holy Spirit to do so. That means that it is the Holy Spirit's praise which she passed on. That is why Scripture is called the Word of God. Because it is inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Need we say more? Let's do it anyway.
Scripture says: Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Thus, God wills that mankind PRAISE Mary. This is confirmed by Mary herself when she says, "From now on all generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48)."
If God Himself holds Mary in such high esteem, why don't you? We believe God's praise is worth much more than any measly attempt we make. There's nothing we can do to equal what God has done for Mary.
Sincerely,
De Maria