Muslims quoting Coptic and Roman Catholic sources on Mary

Below is a video in Arabic, with English subtitles, where this Muslim is quoting Coptic and Roman Catholic sources on their views of Mary. It is impossible to tell what the Latin words are behind the Arabic sources, if at all, since all the sources the Muslim quotes from are in Arabic. Maybe the Coptic church and other Orthodox groups don't make those distinctions that the RCC does in official documents. (distinctions between latria and dulia and hyperdulia don't seem to be communicated at all by the sources or the Arabic speaking Muslim. He says that the Coptic Church and RCC "idolize" (I don't know that word he used.) and worship (ebaudat; and abd) Mary. He quotes from the late John Paul II also. I can recognize some of the words because we have many of these words in Farsi. They use a word for worship ( ebaudat; عباده - Arabic or عبادت (Farsi/Persian).

The video is an answer to the Coptic priest, Zacharia Boutros and that he maintained that the Coptic church (and the RC and EO) officially have never worshiped Mary and that she has never been part of the Trinity, which is what the Qur'an seems to say in Surah 5:116 and 5:72-77 and 6:101-102.

Surah 5:72-78


لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ ۖ وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَأْوَاهُ النَّارُ ۖ وَمَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ أَنصَارٍ


(72) They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.


لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلَاثَةٍ ۘ وَمَا مِنْ إِلَٰهٍ إِلَّا إِلَٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۚ وَإِن لَّمْ يَنتَهُوا عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ

(73) They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

أَفَلَا يَتُوبُونَ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَيَسْتَغْفِرُونَهُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

(74) Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


مَّا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلَّا رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ وَأُمُّهُ صِدِّيقَةٌ ۖ كَانَا يَأْكُلَانِ الطَّعَامَ ۗ انظُرْ كَيْفَ نُبَيِّنُ لَهُمُ الْآيَاتِ ثُمَّ انظُرْ أَنَّىٰ يُؤْفَكُونَ


(75) Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

قُلْ أَتَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ مَا لَا يَمْلِكُ لَكُمْ ضَرًّا وَلَا نَفْعًا ۚ وَاللَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

(76) Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."


قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لَا تَغْلُوا فِي دِينِكُمْ غَيْرَ الْحَقِّ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا أَهْوَاءَ قَوْمٍ قَدْ ضَلُّوا مِن قَبْلُ وَأَضَلُّوا كَثِيرًا وَضَلُّوا عَن سَوَاءِ السَّبِيلِ

(77) Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.


لُعِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِن بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ عَلَىٰ لِسَانِ دَاوُودَ وَعِيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِمَا عَصَوا وَّكَانُوا يَعْتَدُونَ

(78) Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.

Dr. White did an excellent job of showing in the context of the Qur'an, Surah 5:72-77, when it says that both "Isa (Jesus) and Mary ate food", that this passage, along with 5:116 thinks that Mary is part of the Trinity. (see Muhammad's Errors about Jesus

Surah 5:116

وَإِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَأَنتَ قُلْتَ لِلنَّاسِ اتَّخِذُونِي وَأُمِّيَ إِلَٰهَيْنِ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ ۖ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أَقُولَ مَا لَيْسَ لِي بِحَقٍّ ۚ إِن كُنتُ قُلْتُهُ فَقَدْ عَلِمْتَهُ ۚ تَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِي وَلَا أَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِكَ ۚ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ عَلَّامُ الْغُيُوبِ

(116) And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah´?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

Surah 6:101 - this shows that the Qur'an and Muslim automatically think "Son of God" means that God had a wife.

بَدِيعُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۖ أَنَّىٰ يَكُونُ لَهُ وَلَدٌ وَلَمْ تَكُن لَّهُ صَاحِبَةٌ ۖ وَخَلَقَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ ۖ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ


(101) "To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things."

Zacharia maintains that the group that worshiped Mary were the "Marians"; (and not the Coptic or other orthodox Christian groups at the time of Islam), which is probably what is known as the Collyridians,(a desert Gnostic sect in N. Arabia and what is today known as Jordan). The Collyridians prayed, bowed down, and presented wafer cakes to icons and statues of Mary.

When the Muslims see these things and read all the exalted language of Copts and Roman Catholics (and I suppose other Eastern Orthodox groups; it was unclear if the Muslim in the video quoted from other Eastern Orthodox groups), and see that these groups pray to Mary, call her "the Mother of the God", bow down before statues and icons and kiss icons and statues, and call her "the Queen of Heaven"; they don't care about the distinctions between latria and dulia and hyperdulia. And the Roman Catholic Church does a very poor job of communicating these distinctions. It really looks like they are worshiping Mary.

The Muslim in this video emphasizes the difference between "took" in 5:116 and 9:31 and "declared" worship of Mary. He asserts that the Qur'an is true because it doesn't say "they declare their worship of Mary", but rather he asserts that all these "Christians" - Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Coptic worship Mary practically by their actions and prayers and bowing down and praises to her. So, he says it doesn't matter if you don't "declare" your worship of Mary; to the Roman Catholics and Copts and Orthodox, he is saying, "you worship her in deed and practice, while denying you worship her."

The Muslim also points out that the dogma of Mary's sinlessness, points to Mary worship. He claims that the RC sources have quotes from Ephraem the Syrian, Cyril of Alexandria, Augustine, and others on the sinlessness of Mary. He quotes from Origen, but I have never heard that Origen believed in the sinlessness of Mary. He is usually cited as someone who says that she sinned.

He also quotes from the "Christian" sources that say that because of the exchange that Mary and Jesus made - she gave Jesus is human nature, and "He gave His Mother, as a created being, the share in the divine entity". Wow.

It is clear that the Qur'an mis-understood the doctrine of the Trinity, which proves that God did not inspire the Qur'an. The true and Living God would have known what the doctrine of the Trinity is in the sixth and seventh centuries, when Islam started. The description of the Trinity is wrong in the Qur'an, the author of the Qur'an seems to have combined ideas not only from the Collyridians, but also by the nominal and orthodox churches, and other heretical "Christian" groups in the east. The more orthodox churches in Palestine and Syria at the time of Muhammad communicated the worship of Mary, by calling her "Mother of the God", and by their prayers and praises, and actions and exaltation of Mary, that she was part of the Trinity.

This is a very bad testimony to the Muslim world. Even if the RCs, Coptic Church, and EOs claim, "we don't worship Mary", it still looks like it, and smells like it, and definitely brings to them the Scriptural rebuke, "Do not do that! Worship God! (alone) (Revelation 19:10; 22:8-9; see also Acts 14:13-18)

"Then I fell at his feet to worship him, But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19:10

"I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things And when I heard and saw,I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things."

But he said to me, "Do not do that, I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God." (Revelation 22:8-9)


This video shows not only that Muslims misunderstand the Trinity, but also that the non-Protestant groups like Oriental Orthodox, the Coptic Church, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Eastern Orthodox churches have erred in exalting Mary too much.

Evangelical Reformed Protestants say, "We told you so!"

The only remedy is for these groups, the RCC, the EO, and Oriental Orthodox Churches is to repent of this and get back to the Scriptures and have the right and biblical view of Mary.