tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post7110860444611484933..comments2024-03-22T16:09:48.895-04:00Comments on Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Luther: People are Worse Than They Were Under The PapacyJames Swanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-91767287848451630322010-02-15T17:49:45.975-05:002010-02-15T17:49:45.975-05:00Nice post James. You should consolidate all your ...Nice post James. You should consolidate all your Luther myths in a single, easy-to-access document or web page for handy reference - a sort of "Luther-Snopes".<br /><br />You may get heavier feedback on the piety of Rome after the debauchery reaches it's climax on Tuesday.Andrew Suttleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05006722357616296522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-5201525356413789172010-02-15T14:55:48.736-05:002010-02-15T14:55:48.736-05:00This might possibly be approached from another ang...This might possibly be approached from another angle, as well. Late Medieval piety was obsessed with a hyper-spiritualistic understanding of the Christian life in the world. This view emanated in no small part from the papalist system particularly as enunciated by the Gregorian Reformers of the 11th century, which profoundly denigrated "worldly" (i.e., temporal) concerns in favor of exaggerated "spiritual" ones that, in all honesty, NO ONE could live up to. (Indeed, an 11th century bishop who opposed Gregory VII sarcastically wondered where the pope was going to get the angels that he was trying to replace all the men with.)<br /><br />The monastic orders took this hyper-spiritualism and ran with it, and the increasing theological and practical abuses of the doctrine of the cult of the saints left the ordinary Christian in consternation over how he could EVER live a holy life. The Renaissance started to break this hyper-spiritual outlook down by recovering a robust sense of the goodness of created, physical life - an emphasis which ultimately led to the Reformation doctrine of lawful and fully God-honoring temporal vocations for Christians. About a hundred years before the Reformation, new world-affirming groups such as the Brethren of the Common Life arose to combat the "monkish" (as Luther would later call it) concept of the Christian life. <br /><br />As is often the case when extremist positions begin to be challenged, these attempts to correct the hyperspiritual status quo were bound to produce in some people overreactions in the opposite direction. It is well known, for instance, that the Renaissance's emphasis on recovering classical and Christian antiquity produced two streams of thought - one thoroughly Christian and the other increasingly neo-pagan in orientation. Similarly, I think, the outbreak of the light of justification by faith alone in the cultural context of the often grossly hypocritical hyperspirituality of the monks and priests was bound to produce overreactions in the direction of licentious spins on Christian liberty.<br /><br />None of this has nothing to do with some supposed special and grotesque flaws in Reformation doctrine; it is rather just simply <i>human</i>. And at any rate, advocates of the disgustingly immoral papalist system of the 16th century really don't have any business pointing fingers at Reformation excesses. No one with their eyes open to both the witness of history and the witness of the present can actually believe that papalism necessarily produces a great deal more practical godliness than other paradigms.Tim Enloehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00496999199258689044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-84369901133313868842010-02-14T10:17:29.039-05:002010-02-14T10:17:29.039-05:00Thanks Howard-
It's like fishing in a barrel...Thanks Howard- <br /><br />It's like fishing in a barrel. There is no shortage of quotes to put in context fired from the castle of Romanism.James Swanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-41880559663667872592010-02-14T00:27:37.454-05:002010-02-14T00:27:37.454-05:00Once again, you nailed it. Original sources need t...Once again, you nailed it. Original sources need to be read carefully.Howard Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07131678953403450197noreply@blogger.com