tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post9199207981366199256..comments2024-03-22T16:09:48.895-04:00Comments on Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Creed of Pope Pius IVJames Swanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-67087175756540632852008-02-03T06:00:00.000-05:002008-02-03T06:00:00.000-05:00I sincerely apologize that I misperceived your pur...<I>I sincerely apologize that I misperceived your purpose in posting it and ask you to forgive my presumption.</I><BR/><BR/>Of course. Not a big deal.<BR/><BR/>I just noticed I said " Your reaction to this Creed was expected.". That should have read "unexpected".Carriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04697072499214349759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-6116187555657502322008-02-02T09:10:00.000-05:002008-02-02T09:10:00.000-05:00Carrie, I don't fear it. I would have no problem...Carrie, I don't fear it. I would have no problem taking it. I do have a problem with people using it for polemic purposes which might explain why it is not used very much any more except as a historical artifact. However, as you indicated that was not your intent, I sincerely apologize that I misperceived your purpose in posting it and ask you to forgive my presumption. (Mt. 6:14)Paul Hofferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09182683665344747977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-26539375466303505642008-02-02T06:43:00.000-05:002008-02-02T06:43:00.000-05:00Fearmongering of this sort is called nativism. I d...<I>Fearmongering of this sort is called nativism. </I><BR/><BR/>I didn't really notice the oath so you have misfired on that one.<BR/><BR/>I thought the Creed was an interesting summary of doctrines from Trent and wondered why it had fallen at of use. I also thought the additions of Vat I were interesting.<BR/><BR/>But sometimes I just like to post plain quotes so people can glean their own thoughts and opinions w/out any influence from mine. Your reaction to this Creed was expected. I believe this Creed is still official, even if rarely employed, so I don't think you have reason to fear it.Carriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04697072499214349759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-551393483712969142008-02-01T22:48:00.000-05:002008-02-01T22:48:00.000-05:00Hi Carrie, you forgot the part where we Catholics ...Hi Carrie, you forgot the part where we Catholics have to enter a creepy castle, walk down a long corridor lined with sinister looking hooded monks holding long candles with eerie organ music playing in the background before we intone the solemn oath in our deepest voice possible.<BR/><BR/>Seriously though, I don't mean to be flippant here, but I think that Chick or Welborn or one of those sorts beat you to scaring the rubes with this kind of portrayal. Fearmongering of this sort is called nativism. The Know-nothings and the Ku Klux Klan in the 19th century used this oath to rile people up against Catholics by claiming was some sort of pledge of loyalty to the Pope requiring Catholics to rise up to overthrow the United States, the last pure bastion of Protestantism in the world. <BR/><BR/>The fact of the matter is that the oath was promulgated in a time where all sorts of groups, Protestants included, demanded that people take oaths or sign pledges or confessions. St. Thomas More was executed because he wouldn't sign Henry VIII's oath. Cranmer was executed because he wouldn't sign Mary's. Calvin's Genevan theocracy was likewise autocratic. <BR/><BR/>Schaff wrote that the oath even in his time was rarely administered. Since Schaff died in 1893, it is a fair assumption that the article was written before then. It may be helpful to your readers to provide a more contemporary source than one that dates back a 110 years. Perhaps you could share with the readership the last time it is recorded that the Pius IV's oath was administered. I have personally seen several thousand Protestants join the Catholic Church in my parish as well as several family members who have converted and I am not aware of this oath ever being administered in modern times. Of course, the priest could have done it behind my back and swore them all to secrecy. I have also taught CCD classes and Ad Altare Dei classes and noone ever required me to take such an oath.Paul Hofferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09182683665344747977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-11053518136870608982008-02-01T13:03:00.000-05:002008-02-01T13:03:00.000-05:00I agree with Edward and Dozie. I don't see the po...I agree with Edward and Dozie. I don't see the point of this. Why no commentary?BJ Burackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16613575838269069020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-71734767075134038362008-02-01T09:30:00.000-05:002008-02-01T09:30:00.000-05:00Actually, there is nothing surprising in it. It is...Actually, there is nothing surprising in it. It is merely Catholic, IMO.Edward Reisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07099195433395115204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-10387181872322823182008-02-01T08:48:00.000-05:002008-02-01T08:48:00.000-05:00Thank you for publishing this, although it is not ...Thank you for publishing this, although it is not clear to me what your point is. You should send this to every Catholic who must make it his/her own.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com