tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post8768326842941585011..comments2024-03-22T16:09:48.895-04:00Comments on Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Luther: the Commandments are the cloak of all evil, heresies and blasphemiesJames Swanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-58785588006178916422010-11-30T06:58:24.662-05:002010-11-30T06:58:24.662-05:00I can't tell if this behavior is an artifact o...<i>I can't tell if this behavior is an artifact of the anti-intellectualism rampant in American culture or simply the natural outworking of the emotion-driven, cult-of-celebrity conversion narrative that defines much of lay-Catholic apologetics.</i><br /><br />In my last two minutes before I shut off the computer, my simple answer is "yes" to both statements. What drives both is typically zeal for belief. <br /><br />This same type of zeal can also be found in Protestantism. Recently, I was briefly involved in a discussion in which a Protestant was zealously recommending Dave Hunt's <em>A Woman Rides the Beast</em> as a helpful apologetic book against Roman Catholicism. I shared my opinion that I disagreed. No matter which way one would argue against Hunt's book- be it factual errors, or flawed argumentation, this person insisted on recommending Hunt's book. Perhaps at some point I'll post the discussion.James Swanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-72949947000691217822010-11-30T06:48:03.271-05:002010-11-30T06:48:03.271-05:00You really mean that Catholics used these argument...<em>You really mean that Catholics used these arguments against Luther and the Reformation? I'm not calling you a liar or anything. Luther is no friend of mine, theologically speaking, but I could come up with better arguments than these awful proof-texts (I'd better, too if I'm going to not be Protestant).</em><br /><br />Just yesterday this book arrived in my mailbox: Antonin Eymieu, <em>Two Arguments For Catholicism</em> (New York: Benziger Brothers, 1928). The book has the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur. The argumentation put forth is very similar to that expressed by <em>Luther, Exposing the Myth</em>. In fact, I think I can prove <em>Luther, Exposing the Myth</em> used this book as a source without documenting it.<br /><br />Roman argumentation against Luther has a long and complicated history. You may find skimming these two links of helpful:<br /><br /><a href="http://tquid.sharpens.org/catlut1.htm" rel="nofollow">The Roman Catholic Perspective of Martin Luther(Part One)</a><br /><br /><a href="http://tquid.sharpens.org/catlut2.htm" rel="nofollow">The Roman Catholic Perspective of Martin Luther(Part Two)</a><br /><br />I've found that Internet based Roman Catholic apologetics against Luther tend to gravitate toward that approach described in the first link.<br /><br />As to this series, I planned on finishing it by October 31, 2010. I failed, obviously. All together, there are around 60 Luther quotes. A master list can be found here: <a href="http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2010/07/response-to-luther-exposing-myth.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>Luther, Exposing the Myth: a Response</strong></a>.<br /><br />Some of the quotes I worked through years ago (like the one in this very blog entry). I've been revisiting them to take a fresh look, now that so many of the primary German and Latin sources are available.<br /><br />If you put each of the quotes in a search engine, you can see how far they've traveled in cyber-space. Maybe seven or eight years ago someone could get away with using these quotes- not so now with so much information available on the Internet.James Swanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-38986625793660444622010-11-29T23:57:27.153-05:002010-11-29T23:57:27.153-05:00It's as bad as you think, Ikonophile.
As far ...It's as bad as you think, Ikonophile.<br /><br />As far as I can tell, the popular-level Roman Catholic apologetics machine engages in this kind of behavior on a regular basis; the mere appearance of research seems all that is necessary to convince someone that these quotations are both in context and relevant to refutations of Reformed doctrine and practice. Catholics will often copy and paste from these sources without critically analyzing the texts themselves, and this, in turn, will lead other Catholics to believe that these materials are credible and meaningful in an evaluation of Protestantism.<br /><br />I can't tell if this behavior is an artifact of the anti-intellectualism rampant in American culture or simply the natural outworking of the emotion-driven, cult-of-celebrity conversion narrative that defines much of lay-Catholic apologetics. Either way, it is irresponsible and I appreciate the time and energy James Swan takes to research the context of these quotes, even if it is often like shooting fish in a barrel. Propaganda succeeds via blind repetition; the light of context will serve to enervate the entire Luther proof-text project.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784922935749497931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-73320580259550115452010-11-29T22:59:28.863-05:002010-11-29T22:59:28.863-05:00I hate to ask a stupid question so late in this se...I hate to ask a stupid question so late in this series of posts, though admittedly I've not read them all, I do know that this has been a recurring topic/book reviewed on this blog:<br /><br />You really mean that Catholics used these arguments against Luther and the Reformation? I'm not calling you a liar or anything. Luther is no friend of mine, theologically speaking, but I could come up with better arguments than these awful proof-texts (I'd better, too if I'm going to not be Protestant). <br /><br />That's a good way to argue. First, accuse your opposition of proof-texting the Scriptures. Then proof-text Luther in order to discredit him. Ick.<br /><br />JohnIkonophilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05410100250087375782noreply@blogger.com