tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post8056130434368652825..comments2024-03-22T16:09:48.895-04:00Comments on Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Luther Wanted to Drown Jews Seeking Baptism? James Swanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-25142776763991832482016-12-09T22:54:28.012-05:002016-12-09T22:54:28.012-05:00Good to see you over at (too liberal) CF re. Luth...Good to see you over at (too liberal) <a href="http://www.christianforums.com/threads/question-for-lutheran.5888059/#post-37606238" rel="nofollow">CF </a> re. Luther. PeaceByJesushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08754948549904895669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-59895288502203241932016-11-24T19:49:33.931-05:002016-11-24T19:49:33.931-05:00I find it interesting that Luther is quoted in the...<i>I find it interesting that Luther is quoted in the Table Talk as cribbing a story from Boccaccio and presenting it as his own experience.</i><br /><br />Upon revising this blog entry I came across this old comment that I never responded to. In my revision I took some time to look into Luther "cribbing a story from Boccaccio and presenting it as his own experience." A basic problem here is that the comment is a Table Talk comment, so whether or not Luther did this isn't certain. <br /><br />But: the actual "cribbing" appears to be the result of William Hazlitt's English rendering of this Table talk statement. If you compare Hazlitt's rendering with WA TR 3, 3479 and LW 54:208-209, you'll note he appears to have added "at Wittenberg" and also, "myself, Philip Melancthon, and other divines..." Note how LW 54 translates this utterance:<br /><br />No. 3479: A Jew Is Baptized After Seeing Rome<br />Between October 27 and December 4, 1536<br /><br />Then he [Martin Luther] told the story of a certain Jew who wished to embrace the Christian faith. The Jew confessed to the priest who was catechizing him that he would like to see Rome and observe the head of Christendom before he was baptized. The priest tried hard to counteract this plan for fear that an inspection of the scandalous conditions in Rome might dissuade the Jew [from being baptized]. But the Jew went to Rome, and after he had witnessed enough to cause his hair to stand on end he returned to the priest and requested baptism, saying, “Now I am glad to worship the God of the Christians, for he is sufficiently longsuffering. If he can endure such knavery in Rome he can easily endure all the wickedness in the world. For our God is angry enough to punish us, his people, in various ways.” [LW 54:208-209].<br /><br />LW also adds this footnote after "told the story"- "This story was current in the late Middle Ages and appears, e.g., in Boccacio’s Decameron, first day, story 2."<br /><br />I've been discovering a lot of anomalies in Hazlitt's text. James Swanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-92094029109739546562007-08-20T15:48:00.000-04:002007-08-20T15:48:00.000-04:00I think your case that Luther is talking about an ...I think your case that Luther is talking about an allegedly insincere Jew is a valid one--but at the same time, he is clearly expressing a typically paranoid late medieval fear of "false converts" (well, it was a well-grounded fear, but it was grounded in the brutality of late medieval Christians toward Jews rather than in the wickedness of Jews). <BR/><BR/>I find it interesting that Luther is quoted in the Table Talk as cribbing a story from Boccaccio and presenting it as his own experience. . . . . It further inclines me to think that Luther's account of his own journey to Rome may depend on the same venerable medieval trope rather than on real personal experience.Contarinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16602533442067190380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-21972940732234210582007-08-14T01:37:00.000-04:002007-08-14T01:37:00.000-04:00Some Lutherans scholars have warned that TableTalk...Some Lutherans scholars have warned that TableTalk is not always a reliable source for Luther's quotes. These were noted down by Luther's students and they are not that reliable in other words it has to be used with some care or with a grain of salt.<BR/><BR/>Most of the time when I read a Luther quote which disparages him it is mostly taken from TableTalk.<BR/><BR/>LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.com