tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post2478844667887431020..comments2024-03-22T16:09:48.895-04:00Comments on Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Did Athanasius Have Any Right?James Swanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comBlogger1125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-30918894096267235802016-04-19T17:03:20.162-04:002016-04-19T17:03:20.162-04:00"when they made “the decision,” the controver..."when they made “the decision,” the controversy ended. This is not true."<br /><br />Vat1, 2nd Nicaea, etc. had dissenters. Nicaea wasn't any different.<br /><br />"There was one reason the Nicene definition prevailed: its fidelity to the testimony of the Scriptures."<br /><br />Only White has no reservations about rejecting other prevailing conciliar definitions if it doesn't match his judgment of "fidelity". Nor do his Protestant brethren who have no qualms in revising Nicaea or other creeds such as the Apostles.<br /><br />"Arianism experienced many victories"<br /><br />Sure. But Rome never succumbed or taught it which is why it is conspicuously absent in White's retelling - Liberius was expelled, an antipope was installed and the faithful rejected him just as they did with Nestorius, and Athanasius was vindicated by western councils and popes. Rome never succumbing is the point, not how many bishops, emperors, or councils fell to it. If the universal church was teaching and practicing Arianism, it would be rather hard for there to have been a controversy and long battle about it in the first place.<br /><br />"a lone voice remained strong."<br /><br />Athanasius was not the only person fighting Arians.<br /><br />"Arguing from Scripture"<br /><br />And Tradition.<br /><br />"Athanasius acted as a true “Protestant” in his day"<br /><br />If Protestants affirm Tradition and the church as necessary parallel authorities to Scripture in the rule of faith, then sure.<br /><br />"Movements that depend on political favor (rather than God’s truth) eventually die"<br /><br />Yet RCism hasn't died.<br /><br />"Nicea’s authority rested upon the solid foundation of Scripture."<br /><br />As interpreted through the authoritative lens of Tradition.<br /><br />"By what authority did he do so?"<br /><br />The same authority others have appealed to when correcting popes and bishops in history - the Scripture-Tradition-Magisterium triad. RCism teaches popes and bishops can be in error and corrected.<br /><br />"Akin evaluated the errors of his priests based on... Scripture."<br /><br />Sure, S is part of STM-triad. <br /><br />"there are plenty of clear passages in the Bible."<br /><br />Yup, are RCs arguing it is hopeless to determine if the Bible speaks about Mickey Mouse?<br /><br />"Just think of how difficult it is to understand such verses"<br /><br />Right. Scripture's clarity is along a spectrum, as sola scriptura agrees.<br /><br />"none of us could ever comprehend even this simple verse."<br /><br />And are all verses pertaining to "essentials" simple? Apparently Jews now and during NT times cannot comprehend simple verses, or they are just blinded. Protestants who disagree on essentials cannot comprehend simple verses, or they are just blinded.<br /><br />"The Lord Jesus clearly held these men responsible for knowing and understanding the Scriptures."<br /><br />Sure, because fallible authorities had been established since the OT that they were to follow. That didn't therefore make Jesus' claims to infallible authority/ability and exercise thereof superfluous or unnecessary. His rebuke is an exercise of that.<br /><br />"How does one decide how many there are? From the Bible."<br /><br />And how does one decide God spoke to man, these words were confined to writing in something called Scripture, the extent and scope of these writings, those writings are inerrant, SS is the rule of faith, ghm is the primary hermeneutic in yielding meaning, public revelation has ended?<br /><br />"Why did he have to argue his position from Scripture?"<br /><br />Why does RCism throughout history argue positions from Scripture? STM-triad includes S.<br /><br />"Why couldn’t he have argued from some other infallible authority?"<br /><br />He did - Tradition and church authority. Because of that, he charged Arians with novelty, and established no schismatic church, but held to the faith and suffered. When the Arian crisis finally resolved, the faithful had no separate church - they healed the division and the Church continued.Cletus Van Dammehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13749634619890462132noreply@blogger.com