tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post113522082884506164..comments2024-03-22T16:09:48.895-04:00Comments on Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Did John Calvin Believe Faith is a Gift given From God?James Swanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-31916205004545541742018-05-11T05:18:32.404-04:002018-05-11T05:18:32.404-04:00"If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man w..."If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. But you will tell me that I ought to preach it only to those who repent of their sins. Very well; but since true repentance of sin is the work of the Spirit, any man who has repentance is most certainly saved, because evangelical repentance never can exist in an unrenewed soul. Where there is repentance there is faith already, for they never can be separated. So, then, I am only to preach faith to those who have it. Absurd, indeed!" Charles Spurgeon sermon "The Warrant of Faith"<br /><br />For you to say that those people who responded at Billy Graham's crusade are already Christians is absurd indeed. <br /><br />How far a Calvinist will go to twist all the clear passages of the Bible. Faith comes from hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). (1) Explain to me Romans 5:2? Through him we have also OBTAINED ACCESS by faith INTO this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.<br />Romans 5:2 ESV<br /><br />Romans 3:24 says grace is a gift. The calvinist will go so far to defend their erroneous doctrine as to deny that salvation is a result of your faith. Answer me- (2) when Jesus healed people according to their faith, did any of them foolishly claimed that because they believed they had a part in the miraculous healing? And areas where people didn't have faith Jesus did't heal anyone. (3) where in the Bible does it say that regeneration precedes faith? "but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." John 20:31 ESV<br /><br /><br />Yaro kolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17292094753389990123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-1135867066352476462005-12-29T09:37:00.000-05:002005-12-29T09:37:00.000-05:00I'm not sure you'll see my comments below at the o...I'm not sure you'll see my comments below at the other site where you responded to my earlier comments, but this location seems appropriate to post my response. Enjoy.<BR/><BR/>Well, it sounds like we’ve hit a sensitive nerve. Mr. Swan (or is it Dr. Swan?) had a ready answer for my objections to his article. He suggests that I’m the worst of readers of Calvin since I believe Calvin contradicts himself on important issues. Notice how I was misquoted by Dr. Swan at this point. Hopefully, he wasn’t angry. Since he’s a new creation in Christ and no doubt abiding in Him, he can’t sin according to 1 Jn 3:6. I guess this was a simple oversight.<BR/><BR/>But Dr. Swan brings up a good point. Did Calvin believe that faith is a gift from God or is it as I believe, a response to the offer of a gift by God? Dr. Swan showed examples in Calvin's writings other than Eph 2:8-9 that show Calvin believes faith to be a gift. But wait a minute! Did Olson or Geisler claim that Calvin didn't believe faith was a gift or is it their claim that Eph 2:8-9 cannot be used as proof texts? I think Dr. Swan is guilty of going beyond what Olson and Geisler have said. Notice Dr. Swan's comment, "Both Geisler and Olson assert that Calvin did not believe faith was the gift of God, and his commentary on Ephesians 2:8-9 proves this." What kind of error would you call this Dr. Swan? Neither Olson nor Geisler ever claim that Calvin didn't believe faith is a gift of God. Did you really read them? What they are claiming is that extreme Calvinists have an arsenal of proof texts to show that faith is the gift of God, and that Eph 2:8-9, as one, doesn't hold water. Olson and Geisler both go on to show that the remaining purported proof texts are equally weak. Indeed, their point is that Extreme Calvinism is an egregious example of a system of theology that is quick to read into texts of scripture what they want to hear rather than what it says. Interestingly, you have helped them prove their point with your examples of misquotes, going beyond what writers have said, misunderstanding what they have said, and then trashing them with flawed deduction and your own eisegesis. <BR/><BR/>Let's look closer at Dr. Swan's review of my comments to his blog. Even though it's obvious that Calvin believes faith is a gift, he clearly does not believe that Eph 2:8-9 show that it's a gift. Amazingly, given the grammar, Calvin, Olson, Geisler and Ray to the contrary, Dr. Swan believes that Eph 2:8-9 does teach that faith is a gift. Let's look at his quote. He says, “Thus, grace, salvation, and faith are all the “gift of God.” It isn’t simply faith. It is the entire phrase. It is spurious logic to suggest that grace and salvation are gifts, but faith isn’t.” Dr. Swan also says, " Note Calvin’s point: many people “restrict the word gift to faith alone.” But Calvin says that the entirety of salvation is the gift of God: that is, grace, salvation, and faith.." This is amazing. Calvin absolutely does not say that faith is included in the entirety of salvation. You are the only who says that. (Is this not eisegesis?) In fact Calvin goes out of his way to point out that to find faith as a gift in Eph 2:8-9 is an error. If what Dr. Swan says is true then I believe I can rest my case on Calvin being hard to pin down since he clearly contradicts himself. In fact, it's so confusing that even Dr. Swan got it wrong, and even suggests that Calvin is confused since he says one thing (Eph 2:8-9 is not teaching faith to be a gift) and believing another (Swan: "Calvin's point is…." and "Thus, grace, salvation, and faith are all the “gift of God.” It isn’t simply faith. It is the entire phrase. It is spurious logic to suggest that grace and salvation are gifts, but faith isn’t." I think Dr. Swan has been reading too much Calvin, White, and Sproul and not enough Olson and Geisler.<BR/><BR/>But let's look at the what Eph 2:8-9 really says . Reading the passage without straining, I would say that the grammar is saying that “salvation” is the gift, not grace, not faith, and its unlikely the whole phrase. Grace is the means from God’s side (instrumental dative –te chariti), and faith is the meritless mechanism (dia + genitive) by which man appropriates the gift of salvation. (Though meritless we are held accountable for the choice.) That faith is meritless and the means by which anyone can appropriate the gift is well illustrated by John 3:14-15 and the Israelite being immediately healed by simply looking at the brazen serpent. Would anyone consider this “look” a gift? I would say that the healing is the gift? The gift is offered, and the Israelite can either accept it or reject it. The provision of the brazen serpent and all of God’s power to effect the outcome could also be considered the gift, but God does require a volitional response, and that is provided by simply looking.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line: Olson and Geisler are solid in their exegesis. You Dr. Swan, however,………well the above discussion says it all.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11955465970771864995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-1135464499470758762005-12-24T17:48:00.000-05:002005-12-24T17:48:00.000-05:00Stay tuned.JamesStay tuned.<BR/><BR/>JamesJames Swanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19795707.post-1135290564981115722005-12-22T17:29:00.000-05:002005-12-22T17:29:00.000-05:00I know that Calvin believed it. I'm also reading ...I know that Calvin believed it. <BR/><BR/>I'm also reading "Paedofaith" by Rich Lusk, which begs the question:<BR/><BR/>If faith is a gift from God, how old do you have to be before you can receive the gift?<BR/><BR/>(more at my blog)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com