Tuesday, January 12, 2016

Questions for Walid Shoebat

Walid Shoebat (and other authors at his web-site) have been very critical of Protestantism and Luther (and Calvin) in recent years (as James Swan's posts demonstrate).

The Shoebats (both Walid and Theodore) has also had a few run-ins with Dr. White also in the past few years.

Some of the articles and some of the emphasis is right to expose the problems with violent and Jihadist/terrorist Islam and political correctness.  Also, we should pray for the ancient churches communities (Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Oriental Orthodox) and Christians and other groups such as the Yezidis who are being persecuted and slaughered by ISIS.   The Shoebats desire for justice for those communities is a good one.

He does seem to have converted to Roman Catholicism, although that is not completely clear to me either. He speaks well of the crusades, and emphasizes military action again Muslims, etc. 

Shoebat is very Pro-Israel and was (and still is, it seems, though I don't know for sure) very into Pre-tribulational and Pre-millennial theology and prophesy and Israel coming back as a nation in 1948 as a fulfillment of prophesy.

Years ago, (sometime between 1995-2000 ?), we exchanged a few emails, as we were on an email group of people doing ministry with Muslims, he got really upset with me (on an email group of people in ministry to Muslims), because I questioned his Pre-trib and pre-Millennial stuff that was always such an overemphasis on modern 1948 Zionism and Israel, etc. -  he was very similar to  Hal Lindsay, John Hagee, and Jack Van Impe type of emphasis. He later either left the email group or was kicked out of the email group. (?)

To be clear, I support Israel's right to exist and defend herself against Islamic terrorism, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the PLO.  But that is an issue of justice and fairness, (since it was the Ottoman Turks who were the political entity over Palestine for about 500 years, and they were justly punished after 1918 because of their role in joining Germany in World War 1 (so the argument that Palestine was a formal country is wrong); and the Muslims were always attacking first, and loosing more territory since 1948; and the fact that the Muslims never accepted Israel's right to exist, even the 1948 borders were rejected wholeheartedly by the Muslim world at the time.  

Hamas has quotes from the Hadith in it's charter that speak of 
"there is a Jew behind the rock and tree; come and kill the Jews"  and "fight the Jews until the day of 
resurrection". 

See here also.

 That (support for Israel)  is not an issue of whether 1948 was a fulfillment of prophesy or whether the OT land promises to Israel are still valid.   Galatians 4:26, Revelation 21-22; Hebrews chapter 4 and Hebrews 11:10; 11:16 and 12:22-23; and 13:14 seem to indicate the OT land promises were fulfilled in Christ.  (with Galatians 3:16 )  I still struggle between 2 views of the Millennium in Eschatology: is it "Historic Pre-Millennialism" (post-tribulational rapture) or A-millenialism, although I do lean toward an A-millennial view, with a somewhat positive view of much of what partial-preterism says.  

It is still hard for me to tell definitely if Walid is just supporting the militaristic history of the past of Romanism - Crusades, etc. vs. Islam, or if he really converted to Roman Catholicism (though now that I am looking more closely at his articles, it does seem he has converted.) see his article "Them Damned Catholics" at his website.   But that was in 2013; since that time, there are many more articles supporting Roman Catholicism that I have discovered since looking more at this site.  Wow.  I have not had time to digest these, and just noticed them.  It seems more and more clear that he has converted to Roman Catholicism.  Shoebat defends icons, statues, and the whole incarnational theological justification for bowing down to and venerating icons and statues.  (Sept. 20, 2015) And he defends Russia, the Orthodox church, and Putin too.   Wow.  The more I read, the more I am seeing this, Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxy, militancy, mixed with end-times events prophesy stuff.

Walid Shoebat - did you convert to Roman Catholicism?  Are you a traditional Roman Catholic?  (one who wants the Tridentide Latin Mass restored to official and obligatory and either considers the Popes after Pius XII anti-Popes or weak or hold to the Sedevacantist position.)    The more I look and read more at your site, the more it seems to indicate that you have converted to the more Traditional strain of Roman Catholicism.

His pre-trib. pre-Millennialism and pro-1948 Israel as fulfillment of prophesy would seem to conflict with eschatological views of Roman Catholicism and the small Middle Eastern Churches that go back to earlier more ancient churches of Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy (Coptic and other Mia-physite / Monophysite churches/ rejection of the Chalcedonian Council and Creed of 451 AD) and Roman Catholicism. (back to 500s - 600s and beyond to the modern era).

Walid, are you still Pre-trib and Pre-Millennial?  and if so, how does that fit with the Roman Catholic Church, which is more A-millennial?

If you look at his web-site, in a 2012 interview with Pat Robertson (! Charismatic, CBN - 700 Club - TV personality, but certainly not pro-Roman Catholic), he gives a fairly in-depth analysis of the connections of key people with the Muslim Brotherhood and Islamic terrorism, the history and fall of the Caliphate in 1924, and desire for Muslims to re-establish the Caliphate issues and the Sunni - Shiite connections - Shoebat even predicts that Iran will attack Saudi Arabia and destroy it in the near future.   






Maybe it was sometime after 2012 that he moved more toward Roman Catholicism. That (the prediction that Iran will attack Saudi Arabia) caught my eye, because of the recent tensions between Iran and Saudi going on right now.   

See also the Wikipedia article on the history of Saudi and Iran relations and tensions.

Walid is more credible than Ergun Caner, that is for sure, as he truly does speak Arabic and was born in Palestine-Israel, and Walid is a former Muslim, who was an Evangelical for a while; and now it seems he is Roman Catholic. 

Walid's Arabic and knowledge of individual leaders in the world of Islam and Islamic terrorism seem very credible;

although his claim of being a former terrorist has some doubts and wholes in it

and his stuff on the bism-illa (بسم الله ) (In the name of Allah) as the sign of Anti-Christ and 666 is goofy. 

I think Shoebat is basically right in understanding the connections between the Muslim Brotherhood and other Jihadist groups (Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS), the desire for the restoration of the Caliphate, and connections to political Muslims groups in the USA such as CAIR and the Muslim Student Associations on US University campuses.  The founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan Al Banna, inspired Sayeed Qutb, who inspired Osama Ben Laden and Ayman Al Zawahiri (the current leader of Al Qaeda) and Hamas in Palestine/Israel.  Hezbollah in Lebanon is the Shiite version of Islamic Terror against the modern state of Israel. (similar to the Sunni Hamas group.)

Addendum:
After watching the interview that Walid Shoebat did with Pat Robertson again, I noticed several things.  1.  Walid was wrong about Egypt (After the Arab Spring of 2011-2012 in Egypt, Hosni Mubarak was taken down from power, and the Muslim Brotherhood was in charge through Muhammad Morsi's government for a while(June 2012-July 2013), but the people and General Al Sisi rose up and did not want them in charge.)  and 2.  he was making lots of predictions about the Islamic world and tying in Bible passages from Isaiah and Jeremiah (most of which had to do with the era of Assyria, Egypt, and Babylon Geo-politics and wars of that time period.)  Elam is not all of Iran/Persia, although there is a small province in Iran in the south, near Iraq named Elam.   The Elamites were more of Semitic group more closely related to the Arabs in the south of Iraq, but they no longer exist today.  The Persians later conquer Elam.  (Cyrus - 536 BC and forward).   Then later, Islamic conquests (632 AD to 1600s) over the past 1400 years has caused many of the Biblical peoples and boundaries to be changed.  There are Arabs in the south of Iran, but there are also lots of Persians and there is lots of ethnic mix.  I know several Iranians who have an Arab father and Iranian mother, and vice versa, and many Iranians who are Turkish in their ethnic roots.   Isaiah 19:1 and following seems to have been about God judging Egypt through Assyria (the Lord was judging Israel by Assyrian attacks from 738 BC (Tiglath-Pileser) -725-722 (Shalmanesar and Sargon) BC and beyond - trying to take Judah and the south - 701 BC - Sennacherib).  Assyria conquered Egypt in 670 BC (in between the time that Assyria conqured Israel, the Northern Kingdom, and Babylon conquered Judah, the Southern Kingdom, from 606-586 BC - G. W. Crogan, in his commentary on Isaiah, writes, "The fierce king of verse 4 has been variously identified, but there can be little doubt that the most appropriate application is to Ear-shaddon, king of Assyria, who subdued Egypt in 670 BC." (page 126, Commentary on Isaiah, in The Expositors Bible Commentary, volume 6 (Isaiah-Ezekiel), Zondervan, 1986).  Later, Babylonian invasions  -Babylon conquered Israel and destroyed the temple.  (605-586 BC)  Isaiah 19:1 - "The LORD rides on a cloud, coming to Egypt to destroy the idols of Egypt".  The context was the paganism in Egypt at the time and that God, by allowing Assyria to conquer Egypt in 670 BC; and later, Babylon to invade and conquer Judah, the southern kingdom.  Another commentary mentions Persia conquering Egypt for a while in the 500s-300s BC.  God's judgement is described as "riding on a cloud".  That is one of the big concepts that Partial- Preterists use to show that God "came" in judgment on Israel in 70 AD by sovereignly causing the Romans to attack and destroy the temple in Jerusalem.


18 comments:

James Swan said...

Thanks Ken.

I don't expect anyone representing Shoebat.com to venture over here, but I'm sure other people confused about Shoebat.com will find this helpful post.

I'm assuming the Shoebat's won't be the Journey Home anytime soon.

James Swan said...

Here's a weird paragraph from the Shoebat / Luther article (written by Thomas King). Watch for the word "Papism":

"Is it no wonder then that a certain Lutheran priest many centuries later in the 20th century stated on a radio program that both James and Revelation should be removed from our Bible and instead it should have the Shepherd of Hermas instead? (See Gail Riplinger’s New Age Bible Versions (1997), 2nd Edition, A.V Publications Corporation) In fact, it is known that the classical Reformed position on Revelation is one that allegorizes at best or negates at worse. [For that matter, Papism is no better either]. Is it no wonder also that because of this, a number of the modern translations [or perversions] of the Holy Scripture have not only excised many verses and phrases in the New Testament but also have mostly Protestants as their source for translation in their committees? No serious minded Christian who has the new birth from above, will ever question the authenticity of any book of the Holy Scripture, most especially the New Testament.

So Mr. King refers to a wacky KJV onlyist, and then throws Roman interpretation of Revelation under the bus.



Ken said...

Your welcome; hope it is helpful.

Yeah, I am not really expecting them to come here and notice; it was mostly a rhetorical device to show the tension in their views.

But his website is a lot to read and understand and I don't have time to digest it more; although it is more and more curious to me.

The comment about Revelation and Papism, etc. - I did not notice that before. ( I only read your article, not their complete article)

Yeah, that is ironic.

I think their love for futurism in Daniel and Revelation (and Isaiah and Jeremiah and Ezekiel) reveals a real tension between that and the usual Roman Catholic view of those texts.

That is a real tension; I wonder if RCs are required to take a "Papist" interpretation, whatever that is.

Христо Стилиянов said...

I'm surprised you haven't figured out shoebat yet. He is a catholic propagandist diverting attention to islamic fundamentalism to remove focus from the papacy, even if it means being openly in disagreement with catholic eschatology. His articles are ghost written by catholic priests, as he can never have such profound knowledge of history/patristics etc. He is alluring the apostate american gun-loving evangelicals into fighting the future middle east crusade of the pope against islam.

James Swan said...

I don't know about Ken, but I don't spend a lot of time trying to figure Shoebat.com out. I had never heard of them until someone sent me one of their links. Initially I searched their website to determine if they were defenders of Rome, this was back in Jan. 2015. I concluded as follows:

"...as far as I can tell, (Shoenat.com) is some sort of Anti-Islam pro-Roman Catholic website. The website itself doesn't come out overtly as to where its theological affiliations lie, so there's some guessing on my part."

I will say they appear to receive a lot of Internet traffic, so reviewing some of their materials has value.

Ken said...

I cannot figure him out either; his articles are very long and I also don't have time to totally figure him out.

I don't have that Russian looking font - it looks like your first name is Xpisto / Christo (?)

Interesting theory -
How do you know his articles are ghost written by RC priests?

James Swan said...

How do you know his articles are ghost written by RC priests?

The spirit of Jack Chick's "Alberto" lives on!

Христо Стилиянов said...

" I will say they appear to receive a lot of Internet traffic, so reviewing some of their materials has value. "



Cute and subtle way to promote him. Their material is a ball of slander, distortion of historical truth and catholic reading of scripture. Very valuable, indeed. IF you want to marvel at the depravity of the catholic mind.



" How do you know his articles are ghost written by RC priests?

The spirit of Jack Chick's "Alberto" lives on! "



http://shoebat.com/2016/01/25/91567/

Do you seriously believe this crude bombastic preacher (Shoebat) can singlehandedly crank out dozens of articles with such theological depth and volume? You are quick on the trigger to judge me, but you are the one to be judged.

I'm bulgarian. I'll give you and example of Shoebat's deceit here:

http://shoebat.com/2015/08/21/christians-only-please-slovakia-isnt-the-only-eastern-european-country-refusing-to-take-in-muslim-refugees/


Check out the image "Muslims attack Bulgarian police" in the mid-article.

It is actually a photo capturing an attack carried out by supporters of the extreme right-wing party "ataka" against a mosque that is being protected by police. But Shoebat's caption says "muslims attacking police". He is brazen and uses any and every opportunity to lie and deceive.

You protestants contradict yourself. You endeavour to "protest" or rather "negotiate" with the papacy, while scripture and reason dictates that you cannot and should not reason with Satan, only condemn him and his minions.






James Swan said...

Cute and subtle way to promote him. Their material is a ball of slander, distortion of historical truth and catholic reading of scripture. Very valuable, indeed. IF you want to marvel at the depravity of the catholic mind.

You protestants contradict yourself. You endeavour to "protest" or rather "negotiate" with the papacy, while scripture and reason dictates that you cannot and should not reason with Satan, only condemn him and his minions

Hmm... that's the first time someone has suggested that this blog negotiates with the papacy. Rome's defenders have called me quite a number of names over the years.

As to this blog actually promoting Shoebat.com by going through some of the claims they make, this is actually my attempt to do exactly what you state: to demonstrate "their material is a ball of slander, distortion of historical truth and catholic reading of scripture." I doubt this sort of reviewing will further their cause.

Also, be careful of double standards. If we apply your reasoning, you yourself in your comment went on to promote shoebat.com as well:

I'm bulgarian. I'll give you and example of Shoebat's deceit here:
http://shoebat.com/2015/08/21/christians-only-please-slovakia-isnt-the-only-eastern-european-country-refusing-to-take-in-muslim-refugees/
Check out the image "Muslims attack Bulgarian police" in the mid-article.
It is actually a photo capturing an attack carried out by supporters of the extreme right-wing party "ataka" against a mosque that is being protected by police. But Shoebat's caption says "muslims attacking police". He is brazen and uses any and every opportunity to lie and deceive.


In response to our inquires that Shobat.com uses Roman Catholic priests to ghost write articles, you responded:

Do you seriously believe this crude bombastic preacher (Shoebat) can singlehandedly crank out dozens of articles with such theological depth and volume? You are quick on the trigger to judge me, but you are the one to be judged.

I'm all for demonstrating Shoebat.com is a deceptive site, but I will not demonstrate it by hearsay. If you have some facts, then present them. If not, I suggest truth dictates one should not use slander to refute a slanderer.

James Swan said...

Btw: Is this your blog?

http://jesus-partisans-balkans.blogspot.com/2016/01/my-humble-guess-at-when-antichrist-will.html

I did a basic search of the content, and I found Shoebat mentioned a number of times, frankly many more times than they've been mentioned here on this blog:

https://www.google.com/search?as_q=shoebat&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Fjesus-partisans-balkans.blogspot.com%2F&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=

If this is your blog, you are the one contradicting yourself.

Regards, James

James Swan said...

Also, if that is your blog link, I found this comment enlightening:

"All of these scumbag whore churches - Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican, Presbyterian et cetera will return to the mother. Surely, there were more enlightened and godly individuals within them, but many baptists died pinched between "the rock and the hard place" in the religious climate of 16,17,18 centuries. These national churches are "natural olives" of the vatican, therefore EASY to be grafted back in. They have NEVER been sola scriptura and sola gratia etc, but to justify their existence separate from the vatican. They are hypocrites just like the wicked jews who fasted and held the passovers along with their idolatry."

http://jesus-partisans-balkans.blogspot.com/2015/10/wicked-protestant-persecutors.html

Христо Стилиянов said...

"Also, if that is your blog link, I found this comment enlightening:"

I stand by what I said. We will talk in a few years if im around.

James Swan said...

Stop by anytime.

Regards,

James

Христо Стилиянов said...

"As to this blog actually promoting Shoebat.com by going through some of the claims they make, this is actually my attempt to do exactly what you state: to demonstrate "their material is a ball of slander, distortion of historical truth and catholic reading of scripture." I doubt this sort of reviewing will further their cause."


Then thats commendable and i apologize.


I dislike most baptist churches as well, Most of them are masonic, apostate, , dispensationalist, eithered watered down grace crowd or downright legalist pushers but its STILL better than paedobaptistm and augustinian satanic ecclesiology. You need Rev 18:4 the same, only applied to the daughters

Христо Стилиянов said...

I have sinned in using too vulgar wordage, i admit and it is inappropriate (the scumbag part). Nevertheless, you still must realize that a true church has no place for persecuting principles and baptism of infants , and leave these church organizations. A lot will come to light at the last day.

Ken said...

Xristo -
What kind of "church" do you go to?
What kind of Christian do you claim to be?

PeaceByJesus said...

Shoebat's own claims about himself are questionable, while his support of Rome and his wrath against Prots makes him seem to be somewhat of a Catholic terrorist longing for the Inquisitions. CA could hire him as a mod.

But whatever you do James, it seems you better do it quickly:
The World End 100% In 13 April 2016 . with Walid Shoebat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB09UYcTCFM (not sure if he supports or is reproving this false prophecy by Jonathan Cann)

Dennis said...

No one knows the day or the hour the earth will end except the God who is in heaven, beware of false prophets.