Tuesday, November 06, 2012

" the list of Reformed seminaries that insist there is a real problem with Reformed theologians converting to Roman Catholicism..... "

Here's a real gem from the CARM boards (I am not one of the participants below):


Quote Originally Posted by wk_mt2819 View Post
The link I provided showing all of the splits within adherents to Calvin's teachings was never intended to be a link to the Reformed seminary that recognizes it is losing its students to the Catholic Church.
You have yet to supply the list of Reformed seminaries that insist there is a real problem with Reformed theologians converting to Roman Catholicism.....

We're waiting.




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Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Still waiting....
Here you go. I’m sure this isn’t “enough” for you. If you’d like a list of names of “never really saved to begin with” Reformed clergy/professors/theologians I can get those too.

Article discussing Gordon Conwell Reformed seminary grads heading to the CC: http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=135

An article about the topic being discussed at Wheaton College: http://www.koinoniablog.net/2012/05/...the-tiber.html

From the Evangelical Theological Society: http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PD...1-472_JETS.pdf

Article by Christian writer: http://www.religiondispatches.org/ar...o_catholicism/

Professor of Theology: http://globalchristiancenter.com/pra...tholicism.html

http://www.chriscastaldo.com/2012/04...olic-lectures/

Presbyterian blog where exodus of Presbyterian clergy to Catholicism is discussed and affirmed:http://www.weswhite.net/2012/06/jaso...eaves-the-pca/

Another Presbyterian blogger discussing Presbyterians heading to the CC: http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2012...y-to-rome.html

Even our “friends” at “berean” recognizing the “problem”: http://www.thebereancall.org/node/6596



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Quote Originally Posted by wk_mt2819 View Post
Here you go. I’m sure this isn’t “enough” for you. If you’d like a list of names of “never really saved to begin with” Reformed clergy/professors/theologians I can get those too.
The challenge was for you to "supply the list of Reformed seminaries that insist there is a real problem with Reformed theologians converting to Roman Catholicism...". Let's see how you did


Quote Originally Posted by wk_mt2819 View Post
Article discussing Gordon Conwell Reformed seminary grads heading to the CC: http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=135
Gordon-Conwell is not a Reformed Seminary. It is the Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary:

http://www.gordonconwell.edu/ 

Why did you add the word "Reformed" to the name of the school?


Quote Originally Posted by wk_mt2819 View Post
An article about the topic being discussed at Wheaton College: http://www.koinoniablog.net/2012/05/...the-tiber.html
Wheaton College is not a seminary and is not "Reformed" by any stretch of the imagination.


Quote Originally Posted by wk_mt2819 View Post
From the Evangelical Theological Society: http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PD...1-472_JETS.pdf
Seriously? The ETS is about as liberal and far from being Reformed as you can get.


Quote Originally Posted by wk_mt2819 View Post
No evidence this writer identifies himself as Reformed. In fact if you read his bio he attended a Roman Catholic High School and graduated from the above mentioned Gordon-Conwell (Non-Reformed) Theological Seminary.


Quote Originally Posted by wk_mt2819 View Post
The article concerns evangelicals in general. "Evangelical" does not equal "Reformed" or "Calvinist".








http://www.chriscastaldo.com/2012/04/27/evangelicals-becoming-catholic-lectures/


Interesting that you would quote an ex-Catholic who is related to Cardinal Alfonso Castaldo, the Archbishop of Naples. He is also a graduate of Gordon-Conwell, and also shows no evidence of being Reformed.


Quote Originally Posted by wk_mt2819 View Post
Presbyterian blog where exodus of Presbyterian clergy to Catholicism is discussed and affirmed: http://www.weswhite.net/2012/06/jaso...eaves-the-pca/
A blog article with no association to any seminary whatsoever, that is discussing one individual who obviously did not hold to Reformed doctrine and theology.


Quote Originally Posted by wk_mt2819 View Post
Another Presbyterian blogger discussing Presbyterians heading to the CC: http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2012...y-to-rome.html
Again a blog article concerning ONE person. Did you catch the part where the person in question hid his change of convictions from the Presbytery for some time in clear violation of his ordination vows?


Quote Originally Posted by wk_mt2819 View Post
Even our “friends” at “berean” recognizing the “problem”: http://www.thebereancall.org/node/6596
The Berean Call was started by Dave Hunt who is about as far from Reformed as you can get. It would not be inaccurate to call Mr. Hunt "rabidly anti-Calvinist".


So let's add up your score:

Reformed Seminaries listed - 0

Better luck next time, but thanks for playing. You also might want to look into the differences between the terms "evangelical" and "reformed". There seems to be some confusion there.

11 comments:

Turretinfan said...

This is bizarre.

Matthew Schultz said...

I interacted with wk_mt2819 on CARM for sometime. I eventually put him on ignore.

Private said...

Well, there was this past year a student at RTS here in DC that converted. My pastor is a student here and knows of the event:

http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2011/06/reflections-%e2%80%93-graduating-catholic-from-a-reformed-seminary/

Private said...

I suppose not a theologian, per se, but student at least.

Matthew Schultz said...

Well, there was this past year a student at RTS here in DC that converted.

RTS graduates lots of students each year. One is not that many.

I'm a student at RTS. The quality of seminaries has gone downhill; much of what is taught seems to be catered to about the high school level. I don't think there's anything special about a conversion story of a student at this level, to say nothing of the educational difference between a student and a theologian.

Martin Yee said...

Hi James,

You are a great myth buster.

Martin

RPV said...

Much of what is taught seems to be catered to about the high school level

That would explain alot, Matthew.
I read P's CtC link on the RTS student (thanks P, missed that one from '09) and it never ceases to amaze me what these guys claim as to what convinced them to drink the holy water from Hahn all the way up to Cross and Stellman. Most of the time it seems to be a very superficial doctrine of Scripture and a propensity to mistake non sequiturs for slam dunk arguments.

Private said...

RPV, Matthew:

I too was disappointed in Mr. Tate's defense of his apostasy. I was more disappointed with how RTS handled it. I would have expected some form of discipline, etc. I suppose I could see working with him to transfer to an RC place without much prejudice, etc., but I would never have allowed someone like that to graduate. The fact he was allowed 3 semesters to continue there is a, in my opinion, a very poor witness.

For what it's worth, I was as a young man very much a "Mere Christianity" type. I read much Lewis and Chesterton, and I found that reading the latter actually helped to convince me of Calvinism and just how deeply wrong the RC church is. Not only did Chesterton violate his own "rules", but the more I learned about history (G. G. Coulton helpful here...) and the Bible itself, the more I found his explict RC positions abhorrent.

I've often wondered why there has been so few efforts in the other direction, to highlight converts going the other way? I know there are examples, etc. (any from this website or its readers), but is there anything equivalent to the whole Hahn/Madrid effort?

I must say, we are living in a time when being a faithful Christian seems to leave us with nothing but dangers on all sides. Was reading the Pilgrims Progress with my wife just last night (our date night, ha!) and we read the part of going through the Valley of the Shadow of Death - it's what I increasingly feel like, but to hear those voices in the distance, singing of the Lord in the darkness, would and does provide a good deal of comfort.

Matthew Schultz said...

I've often wondered why there has been so few efforts in the other direction, to highlight converts going the other way? I know there are examples, etc. (any from this website or its readers), but is there anything equivalent to the whole Hahn/Madrid effort?

I don't know why it would be worth highlighting such stories as they do. Conversion testimonies have their place, but I think there is some measure of distance between how Catholic apologists go about parading their converts for all to see--especially with their emphasis on being "educated"--and how Scripture uses and treats conversion testimony.

Ken said...

Richard Bennett is a former R. C. priest and has a book of 50 former R.C. priests. I have not read it, but it looks interesting.

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/books.pdf

He also has lots of teaching with his own testimony - I have not listened to much of him in a long time; so I don't know yet what to think - I remember reading and listening to him a little years ago; but forgot what he said.

http://www.puritandownloads.com/swrb/news/13/Richard-Bennett-(former-Roman-Catholic-priest_-now-a-Calvinist)%3A-Free-Videos_-MP3s-%26-PDFs.html

James Swan said...

We had him on ISI a few times.