Wednesday, February 02, 2011

Beggars All and Yours Truly Featured at Catholic Answers forum

I wanted to let y'all know that little old me has been featured in a thread at the Catholic Answers forum in a thread entitled:

John Bugay and Beggars All Website - How to Deal with His Anti-Catholicism

Back in the old days, I used to spend quite a bit of time in Roman Catholic forums, in discussions with folks who are fairly adamantly convinced that I'm wrong about things. I try to "make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you," to "jus-grin-bakatum" and to make the best of things for those who may have some honest questions.

The artwork here, by the way, is by my dear and life-long friend Dale Crum.

6 comments:

JoeyHenry said...

Read the comments John at Catholic Answers. I was just reading Roman_Catholics comments regarding "core" and "non-core" beliefs and "unity". Here are my thoughts:

It is true that individuals do have a personal criteria to choose for himself which is "core" and "non-core" beliefs. Individual Roman Catholics have their own sets of "non-negotiable" beliefs which might differ from one person to another. At an individual level, there is much differences among Catholics as much as Protestants.

The organizations that individuals belong to have a set of "core" and "non-core" beliefs also. The Roman Catholic (RC) Magisterium have laid down her anathemas on some crucial dogmas. On the other areas, there is liberty amongst theologians to debate.

Individual protestant churches also have its own "core" and "non-core" beliefs as stated in their Statement of Faith. For example, a reformed baptist church, holds to the LBCF. A southern baptist church holds to the BFM 2000. Denominations have statements of faith also. From this perspective, if the comparison is from "organization" to "organization", reformed baptist churches all over the world, is as united as the Roman Catholic Churches all over the world.

In fact, if we just rightly compare organization to organization, the The Latter Day Saint Churches all over the world is as much united as Roman Catholic Churches all over the world. Seventh Day Adventist churches all over the world is as much united as Roman Catholic Churches all over the world.

The problem is that, many Roman Catholics think that only the Roman Catholic Church has organizational and doctrinal unity. This is due comparing a single apple with a basket of apples. It is like comparing a single organization against a basket of organizations and then conclude that their single organization has unity. Of course! But, such comparison is erroneous. If, the comparison is from apples to apples, i.e. organization to organization, there is no doubt that organizational and doctrinal unity is not unique to the RC Churches alone.

What is wonderful to look at in the protestant world is that when you compare one historical statement of faith to another, even though one organization is not directly related or influenced by each other, one will note a singular tone with regards to the "gospel". That it is based on the atoning death of Christ alone for the sinner because of God's grace alone, apprehended by faith alone in the power of that sacrifice, not by any human effort or work. And that such "gospel" is sufficiently and inerrantly revealed in the Scripture alone.

In the protestant world, the gospel creates an intra-organizational unity such that no prebyterian will accuse a reformed baptist of not being a christian or vice versa despite differences in some doctrines that they hold dear.

The RC Church, however, defines its unity not with the "gospel" (as protestant understood it) but allegiance to her authority. Such that, the RC Church is not capable of calling a true and fully christian any other organization that does not submit to its authority.

Regards,
JoeyHenry

john said...

That guy "Church Militant" over at CA is pulling the typical Romanist stunt that when their Dogma is refuted by Scripture or cannot be backed by Historical facts they run to the ol "Sola Scriptura is unbiblical" and "Sola Scriptura is a new man-made doctrine unheard of until the 1500's" routine. This guy also denies the biblical teaching of the Penal Substitutionary atonement of Christ.

Also I noticed on that thread at CA some posters have said that you John "don't really understand what the Catholic Church teaches" and that when you do you will "come home to the Holy Catholic Church headed by the Vicar of Christ(the Pope). " Some said they are praying for you follow the Holy Spirit Who will open your eyes and heart and show you that Rome is the "One True Church" etc. Any Comments John? Because people on RC forums have told me the same thing.

John Bugay said...

Hi Joey, thanks for your comment here. I am at work, with limited access, but I wanted to thank you for your encouragement. You are right about the Singular Tone among Protestants, but yes, that is lost on many Roman Catholics.

John Bugay said...

Hi john. In some ways, going in there as I did creates a communications tangle because everyone reading there has his own agenda. So questions fly in from all over the place. I have a lot of other stuff going on; ideally I would like to respond to every one of them. Short of that, I just wanted to give an over view of my thought process, especially about starting from the beginning.

As for their hopes that I will ever go back to Rome, of course I would not ever be able to consider doing that, not in the least, given the things I've learned about it.

Maybe this weekend I can get back there and spend some time talking with them, Lord willing.

Kim said...

As for their hopes that I will ever go back to Rome, of course I would not ever be able to consider doing that, not in the least, given the things I've learned about it.

Amen to that. Once the historical truth is known about the RC it impacts everything. They think we need our eyes opened. They don't see how blind they are. If they willingly looked into their own church history (apart from their own distorted resources) they would be astonished and embarrassed about what they have bought into. Protestantism has an ugly history, as well, but the RC makes dogmatic claims about itself that cannot be historically verified. They expect you to believe what they say because they say it.

Matthew D. Schultz said...

john said:

Also I noticed on that thread at CA some posters have said that you John "don't really understand what the Catholic Church teaches" and that when you do you will "come home to the Holy Catholic Church headed by the Vicar of Christ(the Pope). "

In a social economy that enshrines the conversion event and interprets truth claims through its associated narrative, John Bugay represents a class of entity for which no explanation can be given. All who come into contact with the One True Church and comprehend it as it is--with its beauty, its truth and its majesty--must necessarily convert to (or remain in) Roman Catholicism. Anyone who claims otherwise must simply be deceived or lying.

The appeal is an exceptionally convenient dismissal. A particularly trenchant critique of Catholicism can be avoided by merely having a trustworthy (to lay Catholics) source claim that the individual who issued it based her reasoning on a faulty perception of the Roman denomination. For all her powers of reasoning, she got off on the wrong foot, and so the rest of her analysis merits no cause for alarm.

Whether John Bugay actually understands Catholicism requires a critique of his relevant written material, as it would with any other subject or argument. Barring a few obvious exceptions, it is simply insufficient for someone to claim that an opponent has misrepresented his position without bothering to show where that misrepresentation lies.