Tuesday, September 07, 2010

You Can't Please Catholic Answers Folks

"As someone noted earlier here, [James White] had packed the audience for Round One with groupies from hundreds of miles away" [source].

compare to the recent debate:

"First of all, this was an embarassingly unattended event. At most, there were 30 people in the auditorium. One would think that Mr. White would draw a bigger crowd than that" [source].

This debate was held in a Roman Catholic school. It's not Dr. White's problem if Roman Catholics on Long Island don't care enough about the immaculate conception and sinlessness of Mary to attend a debate.


Andrew said...

Doesn't make any sense.

John Bugay said...

On the one hand, there are said to be a billion Catholics, proof of the ancientness of this "faith." On the other hand, nobody cares about it. This is the true "ecclesial deism," the mechanism is still running, but it's been locked away in some dark and dusty closet that nobody ever visits. And the battery is dying.

Jae said...

@John Bugay, what you said is true and I totally agree with you have said about protestantism - it is dying breed alright - split from split from split without end and caving-in to secular pressures of artificial contraception, gay-marriage, abortions etc.

The "ancientness" and the "oneness" of the Catholic Church is well supported by written historical facts, Patristic Fathers, Early Christian writings, Academic References (Encyclopedia Britannica, World Atlas etc.) and even the old reliable Oxford Dictionary.

However, for the "ancientness" of protestantism, well we have to deal with every, single, differing churches and to be honest there are NO RECORDS whatsoever from ANY historical documents before the 16th century and thus viz:

Lutheran Church founded by Martin Luther in 1517 A.D.

Jehovah's Witnesses founded by Baptist pastor Charles Russell in 1914 A.D.

Unitarian founded by Theophilus Lindley in 1774 A.D.

Baptist church, founded by John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605 A.D.

Who is really running out of battery?

John Bugay said...

Consider this Jae -- there are as many heads as there are heads, and we all get judged as individuals. It's very clear to me that the Roman Catholic church is not what it says it is. God I'm sure accepts that there are Baptists and that there are Presbyterians. But what he doesn't accept, I'm sure, are the allowances for idolatrous practices like the "sacrifice of the mass," and much less will he be forgiving with the teachers of such doctrines.

gerryanneco said...

the mass was instituted by Jesus at the last supper. If scripture is truly the word of God and should be believed literally as His word read the Bread of Life discourse in John's gospel. John was there present at this discourse. Not 'I am like the Bread of Life' but "I am the Bread of Life." "Does this shock you?" this question directly quotes Jesus. why be shocked if He is not speaking literally. In this gospel at the last supper Jesus says "take and eat, this IS My Body. He doesn't say 'this is like My Body.' He also prayed 'that all may be one. - not 33,000 variations of Christianity as we have in the United States today. One Bread, One Body of Christ. and apparently John Bugay is unaware that the ONE organization that feeds, clothes, educates, and houses more people than any other in the world is the Catholic Church, the Church that not only organized Holy Scripture (the Bible) but kept that Scripture intact through the scriptoriums of its monasteries before printing was developed (and after) without which no Christian would today have holy scripture. some of us care very, very deeply. walk with God and ask Him for enlightenment.

John Bugay said...

Gee, Gerry, you must be mistaking me for someone who hasn't heard all that before and rejected it as propaganda.

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

"If scripture is truly the word of God and should be believed literally as His word read the Bread of Life discourse in John's gospel. John was there present at this discourse. Not 'I am like the Bread of Life' but "I am the Bread of Life." "Does this shock you?" this question directly quotes Jesus. why be shocked if He is not speaking literally."

Yet another Catholic Fundamentalist with the Magisterium's literalist hermeneutic.

Oh well. What to do with these Catholic fundy-literalists?

John Bugay said...

Truth, we preach the word, in and out of season!

Jae said...

Yup we are literalist first then metaphorical second.

The Bread and Wine as True Body and Blood of Jesus Christ was believed and practiced for thousand of years in Christendom (solid written historical facts) until 1,517 years later when Luther and his pals rejected the true doctrine.

Just a sampler from Ignatius of Antioch together with Polycarp direct disciples of John the Evangelist, one of the original 12 Apostles of Jesus Christ.


"I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the Bread of God, WHICH IS THE FLESH OF JESUS CHRIST, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I DESIRE HIS BLOOD, which is love incorruptible. (Letter to Romans 7:3)

Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: FOR THERE IS ONE FLESH OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, and one cup IN THE UNION OF HIS BLOOD; one ALTAR, as there is one bishop with the presbytery... (Letter to Philadelphians 4:1)

They [i.e. the Gnostics] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that THE EUCHARIST IS THE FLESH OF OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. (Letter to Smyrn 7:1)

Why do we side with men who were 1,517 later?

Tracy said...

@Jae - you are listing something from Romans 7:3 which is literally not there? This verse is out of the context of your argument. Unless you are quoting a secular document.

The blood of Jesus covers all those who believe. Read Hebrews 9, there can be nothing more clear.

What I truly do not understand about Catholic teachings (I was Catholic: 1970 - 2002) is that they teach that the Word of God is Divine...yet choose to go there own way, away from it.

Unfortunately, I think it has to do with control and selfish gain, with the root being in pride, perhaps, and protection of past secret wrongdoings.

May God have mercy on the person that teaches the Word of God is equal to man's tradition when this practice is expressly forbidden in Colossians 2. It was the Pharisees who did the same thing, reflected in the gospels, which deeply disturbed the Lord Jesus.

I can't imagine how Jesus feels about suffering and dying for people who will not freely accept his sacrifice as sufficient foundation for eternal life in heaven.

I ask every Catholic on this blog -are you trying to prove your church is right?

One of the councils that came hundreds of years after the Incarnation determined that anyone who believed that Jesus's death & resurrection was sufficient alone to atone for sin was to be considered a curse.

Really, what the doctrine of faith + works comes down to is not taking God at His word - disbelief. So, instead of trusting that God's grace is sufficient and Jesus' blood covers all who receive Him as Lord and believe on Him as Savior, the Catholic Church seems to demonstrate that they don't believe God is big enough to handle the problem of sin. And that Jesus was not perfect enough to atone for us all.

If you could just know what it is like to follow Jesus by faith and applying the word of God to your life, you will be truly transformed. And these types of blogs will focus more on giving love and taking care of our neighbors than debating issues already decided by Jesus.

We all just have to make the decision to choose to believe Him. Look what happened to the Israelites, who didn't take God at His word.

An believable life is available to all who call upon Jesus and trust in Him alone, our burden-bearer.

If God's word is not true, then don't you think there needs to be some major spreadsheet created to keep up with all the works that you do only half well, or with a selfish heart, or when you openly attempt sin. This kind of accounting doesn't need to occur.

Because Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED".

Let it be finished in your life, my friends.