Monday, August 23, 2010

Those who are devoted to the interests of the Vatican....

I came across this nugget after a number of hours trying to track down a context to a Luther quote:

The venerable champions of Protestantism, the Rev. Joseph Mendham and the Rev. George Stanley Faber, repeatedly warn their readers to accept with the greatest reserve and caution any statement, theological or otherwise, of a startling nature from the pen of a Romanist, and to reject it until verified by a careful examination of the originals. But, as their testimony may be deemed partial, I will add the remarkable testimony given in the Translator's preface of Dr. Dollinger's "Fables respecting the Popes of the Middle Ages," a translation undertaken with the sanction of the author,—himself a Romanist. The charge of literary fraud indulged in by Roman Catholic writers is thus delicately expressed :—

"It is impossible to live long among those who are devoted to the interests of the Vatican, or to read much of the literature that is written in support of those interests, without feeling that the conception of truth entertained by those advocates is a saddening travesty of the sacred reality. In some cases the sense of truth, the love of truth for its own sake,— nay, even the very power of discriminating between truth and falsehood,—seems almost lost"!


source and primary source

By the way, the quote I was looking for turned out to be spurious. Of course, not every person in communion with Rome quotes sources poorly. However, in my Luther studies, more often than not, truth is slain in the street.

8 comments:

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

"It is impossible to live long among those who are devoted to the interests of the Vatican..."

Folks like Matthew Bellisario, Dozie, and others of that ilk sure make it seem impossible.

"without feeling that the conception of truth entertained by those advocates is a saddening travesty of the sacred reality. In some cases the sense of truth, the love of truth for its own sake,— nay, even the very power of discriminating between truth and falsehood,—seems almost lost"!"

It kinda makes you wonder whether Rod Serling was a former Catholic. And that he dreamt up the Twilight Zone series to speak to the world that his Catholic friends and acquaintances inhabited.

Cue the theme song: "Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do...."

P.S. This passage perfectly complements the quotation that Constantine gave previously by Cardinal Congar about how the Magisterium refuses to be clear about its doctrines.

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

A Catholic: "It is impossible to live long among those who are devoted to the interests of the Vatican"

Supported and affirmed by Cardinal Congar (hat tip to Constantine):

"Don’t look for an infallible list [of the Magisterium's infallible teachings]. According to Cardinal Congar, that would be a “gratuitous” thing for the Magisterium to provide. In fact, it may even be "hazardous".

“Every possible “definition” of a particular point of doctrine comes under the Magisterium and is referred to it. Those, therefore, who imagine that the ideal aimed at in exercising the Magisterium is to produce as many gratuitous “definitions” as possible, assigning their elaboration to the theologians, are sadly mistaken. The essential thing is not to define, but to keep the deposit faithfully and to bear witness to its totality by respecting the balance of its different parts. The extreme course of “defining”, which the Fathers unanimously consider as a hazardous undertaking…which it is hoped may be avoided, is resorted to only when necessity decrees that this is the sole way to safeguard the integrity and purity of the apostolic testimony, whose content is the truth of the bond of Covenant sealed in Jesus Christ.” Congar, Yves. The Meaning of Tradition. San Francisco. Ignatius Press, 2004, p. 65

In other words, trust me until you can’t trust me. And then I’ll tell you to trust me again.

A Hobson’s choice if ever there was one."

John Bugay said...

Who is Hobson?

Constantine said...

Hi John,

Here's an easy definition of a Hobson's choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice

Peace.

Constantine said...

Thanks for the hat tip, TUAD.

Peace.

Viisaus said...

"The venerable champions of Protestantism, the Rev. Joseph Mendham and the Rev. George Stanley Faber, repeatedly warn their readers to accept with the greatest reserve and caution any statement, theological or otherwise, of a startling nature from the pen of a Romanist, and to reject it until verified by a careful examination of the originals."

Faber and Mendham wrote in times before ecumenical-minded political correctness...

Richard Littledale added his voice to this choir:

http://www.archive.org/details/plainreasonsaga01littgoog

p. 108

"LVIII. And in the full spirit of these Roman principles, the controversial and theological writings of Roman divines perfectly swarm with falsehoods. A very few instances will suffice in illustration: and they are fair average specimens.

a. Liguori, in his "Glories of Mary" (Fr. Coffin's translation: Burns & Oates, 1868), p. 112, quotes St. Anselm as saying, that it is safer and better to call on the Blessed Virgin than on Christ. The passage is from a notoriously spurious treatise. At p. 23 he quotes St. Bernard as saying, "At the name of Mary every knee bows", with a false reference to the Annunciation sermons, wherein the passage does not occur, nor anywhere else in St. Bernard. At p. 197 he quotes St. Ignatius of Antioch, as saying that no one can be saved without Mary's help and favour; and, allowing that the passage has been doubted, alleges that at any rate St. Chrysostom acknowledged its genuineness, and adopted it. Both statements are wholly false. And if it be pleaded that Liguori erred through ignorance, the reply is that his editors do not correct him, though they, at any rate, know the facts."


And here is another Victorian-era Protestant historian (J.A. Wylie) dealing with one of the most inflammable subjects in Roman polemics:

http://www.freepres.org/papacy/pap02-20.htm

"The question we are now to discuss discloses to our sight a very gulph of wickedness. It is as the opening of pandemonium itself. One wonders that the earth has borne so long a society so atrociously wicked, or that the lightnings of heaven have so long forborne to consume it. This doctrine of enormous turpitude is the dispensing power. The Church of Rome has adopted as a leading principle of her policy, that faith is not to be kept with heretics when its violation is necessary for the interests of the Church."

John Bugay said...

Visaaus, as usual, you have some great perspective and information on this.

Viisaus said...

Thank you, John, I appreciate that you appreciate my cut-and-pastes. :)

But anyhow, the Old Testament already taught us that worshippers of false deities become "like unto them" - they start to resemble their own idols in falseness.

And indeed, we can see that the people who are forced to defend all the untruths upon which the RCC has been built - from "high-class" frauds like Pseudo-Dionysius and False Decretals to dreary grassroots-level folk-legends about this or that non-existent saint or "sacred image" performing miracles - quite inevitably become untruthful themselves.

Most RCs probably get involved in falsehoods "involuntarily", but some of them may be even eager to employ pious frauds for the sake of a worthy goal. "The ends sanctify the means", wasn't that what the Jesuits were accused of teaching?

Those who defend lies eventually become liars themselves by sheer weight of logical consistency, whether they want it or not. Just like the one who sincerely imitates a worthy object of veneration (like Christ) becomes worthier himself, so also people begin to resemble the unworthy objects they venerate. For it is written:

Psalms 115:8, 135:18

"They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them."