Sunday, January 15, 2006

Eavesdropping At Catholic Answers: The Debates of James White

VS.


I admit it: I skim through the Catholic Answers discussion boards. Every time I get involved in a discussion, I usually regret it. Not because I’m somehow “refuted”- rather, I usually end up wasting a large amount of time dialoging with people who have an inability to comprehend arguments and facts (I will post some examples of this in the near future). Since I spend a lot of time writing seriously, I thought this thread from Catholic Answers was worth a chuckle: Tim Staples / James White Debate.

Read for yourself how “Dr. White wrongfully used scripture and some argumentative techniques against Staples, so it was an unfair fight” or “James White is the Champion at Straw Man arguments” or “Sungenis destroys White (5 times). Hmmm.... no wonder White refuses to debate him any more” or “Pacwa took white behind the woodshed and had white grasping for straws”…” "Eventually it will be "White? who is White" He's no white, he's always wong!!”

Now, I’ve been to a few of the debates of James White vs. “insert Catholic Apologist name here.” So this is what makes these comments funny to me. I’ve seen more than one Catholic apologist squirm in his chair under cross-examination from James White. I've watched these exchanges in person- and i've heard the hush in the room when their hero is falling.

One of the funniest things I saw was the group of little old Catholic ladies yelling at White while debating Mitch Pacwa on the invalidity of the priesthood. Believe me, Pacwa needed all the help he could get. Probably the saddest thing I saw was Catholic apologist Bill Rutland attempt to defend the ability of non-Christians to enter heaven. After that debate, it isn't surprising to me the yearly debate series this was part of seems to be over. Dr. White has documented time and again how the Catholic apologists won't debate him. My guess is there won't be debates because Catholic Apologists realize how unhelpful these debates are to the validity of their "work". It must be hard to be taken seriously when recordings exist of them doing so poorly defending the Roman Catholic Church.

Now, almost every time someone on Catholic Answers starts a thread mentioning James White, there’s a pretty good chance the thread is going to disappear. The content of the discussion usually turns into slander and rhetoric. In fact, to prove my point, just go on to this thread and say: “James White is a Godly man with a heart for the truth.” Watch the responses you get, and watch how quickly the thread dissapears.

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

I have personally heard almost every one of Dr. Whites debates with RC Apologists (only missed the Pacwa priesthood debate)through the Straitgate website, and I must say, I agree with you %100. Without being present at these debates, you can sense the desparation on the RC defensive side. After listening to all these debates I came away thinking how poorly RCism was presented and defended by their better, if not best, apologists. James consistantly presents his side of the debate with a great understanding of the issues and with devestating rebuttals under cross examination. I wonder why I think he always walks away with a "win" during these debates (obviously these debates aren't about wins/losses). Maybe he's defending the position that is actually more factual, accurate, and Biblically compatible to begin with? Better arguements don't win debates, the truth behind them always does.

James Swan said...

Anonymous- Excellent synopsis.

fm483-
Ok, I may come across sometimes as a little less than loving toward Roman Catholics. In the last few James White debates I attended, I met up with a Roman Catholic opponent I met on the CARM boards. We had dinner previous to the debate, and then discussed it afterwards. Nice guy- bad theology.

The folks who post over at Catholic Answers are more than simply "threatened"- they actively produce false information and slander against Protestants. Not all of them, obviously- Every so often I run across someone sane. Most telling is the hatred for Luther I encounter. I don't mind if RC's don't like Luther, but they should at least get their facts straight. I challenge you to spend a week over there. Get involved in a Luther thread, and let them know you're a Lutheran. Try this one, it just started:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=94227

Or if you have about a month to catch up, read this one:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=71002

James Swan said...

fm483-

I also saved many of the posts from the Lutheran forum, and i'm still in contact with Commonman (John)- I really liked the format of those forums- to bad they didn't take off.

I'd say if i get into discussions with RC's maybe 1 out 15 of them is willing to listen. On the other hand, I have learned much about my own beliefs by contrasting them with the Roman church. So no time is wasted- when I see things are getting silly I leave.

I don't have Chemnitz yet, but a library near my house has it, so i've used it during some research. It is a huge book! You know, if I could purchase an electronic version that would be best.

I wish Concordia would make more Lutheran type of works available in electronic form (by the way here is one the best Lutheran links for research-

http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/lutherantheology.html

I pray for many of the people I get into discussions with- The goal is Jesus Christ. But you are right, sometimes one must simply say what they need to, and leave it at that.

Blessings-
James

James Swan said...

Your comments cut to the heart fm483-

Indeed, One of the reasons I decided to blog was coming to the realization that discussion boards were futile. Particulalry in that thread you joined in on at Catholic Answers (btw, I appreciated your comments), I came to the realization that my time was being seriously wasted.

Another reason I chose to blog, was that I needed an outlet to write. Unless I write something down, I never remember it. So, with all the research I would do during a discussion board interaction, I would quickly loose track of it, as it slipped into the dark holes of cyber-space. Then, I would go look for it, and couldn't find it!

My next blog is going to be about my Luther interest.

In terms of faith in Christ- It becomes more and more clear to me how foolish the gospel is. I don't expect anyone to believe it. But to those of us who do- it is the sweetest song known.

Pastor Patrick Hines said...

I've heard all of White's RC debates. Wouldn't you think that Jesus Christ's infallible church and her apologists would just absolutely destroy all comers? And yet the results speak for themselves.